I am so tired of their BS it is really getting to me, I mean they are not only willing to let this country go into the sh!ter they are in reality sending it there with their bickering its crazy.

First of all even if the country does go down the tubes 90% are still millionaires and can walk away from it. They aren’t going to miss a meal or paycheck so it really doesn’t matter to them. Now will it?
We are no longer represented by politicians that want to help the country. Some are out to help sure but others are out to just get what will help them out not the country. And then there are the ones who are out to destroy the country with their inability to compromise for the good of the country.

Examples are numerous.
“For the United States, both numbers look bad. Annual deficits have exceeded $1 trillion the past four years. The federal debt has reached $11.7 trillion, not including money that federal agencies have borrowed from each other, including from the Social Security trust fund.”

http://apnews.excite.com/ar...30227/DA4MVO2O0.html

and now want to just destroy it completely.

I am not eloquent when I talk; normally I am worse than a drunken sailor on shore leave. I try to tone it down here but sometimes it is more than impossible. Like right now for instance!

Just needed to rant.

Steve

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

I think the problem is so overwhelming to our representatives that they are terrified. I know we lay-persons can shout out obvious (and overly simplistic) solutions but I'll bet if we got into the depths of the issues ourselves we would lock up in terror too.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: First of all even if the country does go down the tubes 90% are still millionaires and can walk away from it. They aren’t going to miss a meal or paycheck so it really doesn’t matter to them. Now will it?

EVERY politician is vulnerable to angry mobs.

quote Originally posted by TK: I think the problem is so overwhelming to our representatives that they are terrified. I know we lay-persons can shout out obvious (and overly simplistic) solutions but I'll bet if we got into the depths of the issues ourselves we would lock up in terror too.

I think the first thing they need to stop making laws that in reality could be 2 pages turn into laws that are thousands of pages long and have very little to do with the original laws.

Next I think they should be the first ones to lose their paychecks at least a month before any of these cuts, cliffs that are so much in the news now ever happen.

That last one right there would make absolutely positively going to stop anything like the Cliff they are talking about happening ever again, IMO.

Steve

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

I agree 100% but we vote in representatives that are totally unqualified to make economic and social decisions (and have personal agendas) in most areas of running a government. They have to lean on "experts" that have their own agendas. Do that for 200+ years and here we are. When new reps come in and see what have been built up, they freak and lock up once they get it. Once it's all explained to them I think they just can't handle it and kick the can down the road. The few that can grasp it can't get the others to see the trees for the forest.

The Congress of 1789 is not the Congress of 2013. It's not "representation" when all they do is get elected by saying everything is messed up and then getting votes based on one or two hot button topics. I don't need a representative as much as I need qualified economists which few members of the house or senate are. The average Joe is no longer good enough. The problems are so huge and precarious that few if any of the people we vote in are qualified to try and fix it. And when they get in, they realize it too.

As much as we want to believe the founding fathers were geniuses, they weren't. They came up with a workable framework but died off before they could see that they left out a lot of the details trying to keep everything fair across the states. Slowly, little issues cropped up that needed to be leveled, then wars, then trade issues and they tried to patch the federal laws to handle it. Add in capitalism and over 200+ years we have an unworkable patchwork of laws and greed.

New reps come in and soon learn it's a horrible mess.

[This message has been edited by TK (edited 02-28-2013).]

Obama does not believe in the traditional view of America held by most Americans, both liberal and conservative.
His anticolonial background and influence from his father shaped his idealogy. He believes America is only wealthy because it has preyed on other countries. For one person to make $1, another must lose $1. His goal is to make America "fair" - which means transferring enormous amounts of American wealth to the rest of the world - far beyond anything we've ever done with regard to foreign aid.

When he's done, America won't be the shining beacon on the hill. It'll be just another candle in the wind.

Everything about his upbrining and political philosophy supports this. All of his arguments are centered on the idea that the successful didn't earn their success - they stole it from the work off the backs of the poor. Many people agree with this philosophy. Here's an easy question that illustrates the disconnect:

"Can you create wealth out of thin air?"

The Obama Doctrine says no - wealth is only transferred from one person to another.

J. K. Rowling created Harry Potter out of thin air. Sure, the books had to be printed and sold, but people willingly paid for the books to receive the enjoyment from them. They paid their money because they felt they got something greater than the value of that money - the entertainment. If they didn't think it was worth more than the money it cost, they'd have kept their money and spent it on something else. So the readers won by getting something for their money they felt was more valuable than the money itself. J. K. Rowling won from the income those sales generated. Who was the "victim?"

Steve Jobs. How many people willingly part with their money because they believe Apple products make their life better than spending the money on something else?
Who was the victim?

Capitalism at it's core is based on trade for mutual advantage. Obama doesn't believe in mutual advantage. He believes for one person to win, another must lose.
America has won for a long time. Obama wants to even the scales the only way he knows how. To his mind, this is a good thing and an improvement in America.

Yes, Obama is the sole problem over the last 200+ years.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: The Obama Doctrine says no - wealth is only transferred from one person to another.

Do you have his actual words, or are you mis-quoting this?

"I think the trick is figuring out how do we structure government systems that pool resources and hence facilitate some redistribution because I actually believe in redistribution, at least at a certain level to make sure that everybody's got a shot. How do we pool resources at the same time as we decentralize delivery systems in ways that both foster competition, can work in the marketplace, and can foster innovation at the local level and can be tailored to particular communities." - Obama

quote Originally posted by TK: As much as we want to believe the founding fathers were geniuses, they weren't. They can up with a workable framework but died off before they could see that they left out a lot of details of trying to keep everything far across the states. Slowly, little issues cropped up that need to be leveled, then wars, they trade issues and they tried to patch the federal laws to handle it.

I'd a big part is slowly the government grew and grew, doing many things it has no business doing...

in these days of instant communication - do we actually need representatives anymore? seems like most stuff can be done directly "by the people". and this would also cut out much of the "pork" which gets added onto stuff. and "lobbying" would really need to re-work its ugly head.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: do we actually need representatives anymore? seems like most stuff can be done directly "by the people".

This could be the banner slogan for every lynch mob ever assembled.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 02-27-2013).]

quote Originally posted by TK: Yes, Obama is the sole problem over the last 200+ years.

America was a great country until Bill Clinton. After that is when it went to H$LL in my opinion. Yes Obama is the president and has been for more than one term. Now what is happening today is on his shoulders no matter how much he lies and blames others he is the problem. Biggest example he has done nothing to help but pushed entitlement policies and attacked our rights. As president he is the problem today. He could make a difference but refuses to.

There are a lot of problems with our current political environment. With the growth of government power, it becomes the best interest of each politician to use that power to enrich themselves and their constituents. It used to be that if a politician attempted to bring home pork to their state, there would be 49 other states that would object. Instead, today they cut deals so that every state gets a cut of the pork.

Another problem is that we have the rule of lawyers instead of the rule of law. The law should be understandable by the people that are required to follow it. Too many lawyers get into office and write laws worded in such a way that only another lawyer can understand it. Can anyone honestly say that they understand Obamacare and how it's implementation will affect them?

quote Originally posted by F355spider: America was a great country until Bill Clinton. After that is when it went to H$LL in my opinion. Yes Obama is the president and has been for more than one term. Now what is happening today is on his shoulders no matter how much he lies and blames others he is the problem. Biggest example he has done nothing to help but pushed entitlement policies and attacked our rights. As president he is the problem today. He could make a difference but refuses to.

Oh, since Bill Clinton. For me it was since Nixon. For my dad it was since Truman. For my grandfather it's since Coolidge.

[This message has been edited by TK (edited 02-27-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Formula88: The Obama Doctrine says no - wealth is only transferred from one person to another.

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: Do you have his actual words, or are you mis-quoting this?

Do you see any quotation marks in the comment?
No quotation marks means it's not a quote. That means it's not a mis-quote either.
It's what some people call an opinion. Maybe you've heard of them?

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: I am so tired of their BS it is really getting to me, I mean they are not only willing to let this country go into the sh!ter they are in reality sending it there with their bickering its crazy.

So you want them to no longer be politicians.

Look... I'm just going to put this out there...

It's not our politicians... it's the people of this country. We are the ones who vote for our politicians...

If we have stupid politicians, it's only the fault of the constiuents.


Take Rep Hank Johnson for example... quite possibly one of the dumbest individuals ever in the history of the United States... I mean this guy is really a complete and total ****ing moron. The man is in his second term now. Now, understand me... when I say the man is a total moron, I'm not saying that because I disagree with what he believes in... the guy is ACTUALLY dumb. It's amazing that he even managed to get a degree.

There are other examples... like Alvin Green... that guy REALLY won the primary. Had there been more Democrats in that state, he would actually be in Congress right now.

We have no one to blame but ourselves. I mean... I know EXACTLY WHOM AND FOR WHAT I am voting for, in EVERY election. But there are a lot of people who just vote blindly for someone because either the person is the same skin color, the same religion, or because they're the party they are "supposed" to vote for... even if they have no idea what it is that they are supporting.

The MAJORITY of our country doesn't even know who the God damned Vice President of the United States is... and people wonder why our country is so ****ed up.

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Take Rep Hank Johnson for example...

Oh, THAT Hank Johnson. Yeah, he's a few Skittles short of a rainbow.
There's no shortage of stupidity from all parties, but that one really stands out.

The system is working exactly has was expected; grow until it collapses in on itself.
Until it is so clogged with buracracy & largess that it can no longer support itself.
And then the fall.

It's all in the history books.

I think it is the natural order of all "systems" that involve humans.
Nobody could have stopped it.
Maybe stretched it out a bit, but not stopped it.
Because, as usual, the fault is human.
It is the nature of us.
Destruction is what we do best.

And then we will all recycle it again.
Different, but in the end, the same.
We're not that complicated.
Probibly never will be.

"It's only in the face of horror that we truely find our nobler selves........and we can be so noble."

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 02-27-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: The system is working exactly has was expected; grow until it collapses in on itself. Until it is so clogged with buracracy & largess that it can no longer support itself. And then the fall. It's all in the history books. I think it is the natural order of all "systems" that involve humans. Nobody could have stopped it. Maybe stretched it out a bit, but not stopped it. Because, as usual, the fault is human. It is the nature of us. Destruction is what we do best. And then we will all recycle it again. Different, but in the end, the same. We're not that complicated. Probibly never will be.

Never have truer words been put to ink.
Yours Boonie? I want to know who to quote/blame for it and get the name right.
Too deep for me!
Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Never have truer words been put to ink. Yours Boonie? I want to know who to quote/blame for it and get the name right. Too deep for me! Steve

The blame rest firmly with me.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: The blame rest firmly with me.

Now that doesn’t surprise me, LOL

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: I am so tired of their BS it is really getting to me, I mean they are not only willing to let this country go into the sh!ter they are in reality sending it there with their bickering its crazy. First of all even if the country does go down the tubes 90% are still millionaires and can walk away from it. They aren’t going to miss a meal or paycheck so it really doesn’t matter to them. Now will it?

If there's no one driving the semis to deliver the food to closed down restaurants or shut down delivery services and have their clothes stinking at home because there's no laundry open and the department stores are closed so they can't buy new clothes and if they were able to buy online there's no one to deliver them, they will be affected.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: The system is working exactly has was expected; grow until it collapses in on itself. Until it is so clogged with buracracy & largess that it can no longer support itself. And then the fall. It's all in the history books.

You are correct, but that doesn't mean people of good conscience shouldn't do everything in their power to avert such a collapse.
One day I may look out over the same ruins of what was as the ones who did nothing, but I'll do so knowing I gave my best.

When a person is faced with what seems to be an unwinnable situation, they can either fight the good fight, or give up, roll over and wait for the end. Why do you think there's so much outrage over the proposed gun bans? It ain't to save hunting and sport shooting. Many know history and don't want to repeat it.

No, I'm not saying you would give up. I am referring to those who make that choice.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: in these days of instant communication - do we actually need representatives anymore? seems like most stuff can be done directly "by the people". and this would also cut out much of the "pork" which gets added onto stuff. and "lobbying" would really need to re-work its ugly head.

You seem fairly intelligent in most of your posts, so I'll just guess you are being sarcastic here. Tyranny of the majority and all that stuff, ya know.....

quote Originally posted by TK: Oh, since Bill Clinton. For me it was since Nixon. For my dad it was since Truman. For my grandfather it's since Coolidge.

"Today is the good old times of tomorrow."

"The the past, even the future was better!"

- Karl Valentin