...and think nothing thru for more than 1/4 of a second. There really IS one born every minute.

So a house we did a job on yesterday had one of these installed.
http://www.homedepot.ca/pro...Xbo:20130808135204:s

OK, just HOW much heat are you going to recover from a straight vertical flow ? Nobody thought to add a horizontal run, or holding tank, or ANYTHING to the device to slow the horizontal drop and allow heat to be really recovered ? Even a dishwasher dumping out 190-degree wash water wont cause THAT to raise more than a couple of degrees, and they want $625 bucks for it. Or even how about running the heat pick-up tubes INTERNALLY so heat doesnt go thru 2 layers of copper to only be transfered to about 1/3 of the diameter of the pick-ups ??

Yeh, I know...its shiny and looks steampunk and SOMEBODY NAMED IT R2-60 so that means its going to give me an insulation number of ....HEY, how about we bolt them to the walls to keep heat in..

:

[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 08-08-2013).]

"The Power-Pipe will typically pay for itself in 2 to 10 years"

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: ...and think nothing thru for more than 1/4 of a second. There really IS one born every minute. So a house we did a job on yesterday had one of these installed. http://www.homedepot.ca/pro...Xbo:20130808135204:s OK, just HOW much heat are you going to recover from a straight vertical flow ? Nobody thought to add a horizontal run, or holding tank, or ANYTHING to the device to slow the horizontal drop and allow heat to be really recovered ? Even a dishwasher dumping out 190-degree wash water wont cause THAT to raise more than a couple of degrees, and they want $625 bucks for it. Or even how about running the heat pick-up tubes INTERNALLY so heat doesnt go thru 2 layers of copper to only be transfered to about 1/2 of the diameter of the pick-ups ?? Yeh, I know...its shiny and looks steampunk and SOMEBODY NAMED IT R2-60 so that means its going to give me an insulation number of ....HEY, how about we bolt them to the walls to keep heat in.. :

Yeah, you know... I'm normally into these efficiency improvement things, but this definitely looks bogus... or almost negligeble at best.

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Yeah, you know... I'm normally into these efficiency improvement things, but this definitely looks bogus... or almost negligeble at best.

For size, the thing is only about 5 feet long (I didnt measure it, but I am 6'2" and it was about a foot shorter than me)

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: For size, the thing is only about 5 feet long (I didnt measure it, but I am 6'2" and it was about a foot shorter than me)

I really expected you to be 5'5". I mean all the pissing and moaning you do, like a woman, I really thought it was just little guy syndrome.

"There's a sucker born every minute"

PT Barnum

"a fool and his money are soon parted"

Ancient proverb

"Just because you are rich doesn't mean you are smart"

By Cory Franklin

"Some people are dumber than a bag of hammers"

By Me

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: "Some people are dumber than a bag of hammers" By Me Steve

I donno, there are some pretty smart hammers out there

The price is outrageous, but the principle may be sound. Hot water leaving the house via the drain certainly does take energy with it. If you flow cold water through the wrapped pipe, it -will- absorb the heat from the drain pipe, and it -will- reduce the load on the water heating device.

I've seen heat recovery units for fresh air exchanges that work similarly, so as to allow for fresh air for a tightly sealed house, without losing too much heat.

Problems I see with it, which may or may not be relevant: If you are draining cold water, obviously you won't be recovering any heat. But then again, plumbed properly so that it only flows water through the small tubing based on -hot- water usage would mostly negate that disadvantage. Secondarily, by having a wrap like that, you have likely decreased flow for the hot water heater, so overall pressure may suffer on the hot water side of things.

Again, though, I think the theory of this is actually sound, even if the price is crazy stupid high. It's just a heat exchanger after all, and thermal energy is fairly easy to recover. (Unlike the 'magnet' stuff on fuel lines).

Edit: Reading more online, and it seems that the price point is high because (IMHO) there are government subsidies to help pay for it, in the form of tax credits, and other such nonsense. Reviews also indicate that there is indeed some pressure drop associated with it, as I suspected.

[This message has been edited by dsnover (edited 08-08-2013).]

The idea is sound, but the execution is crap. It's too small to be of any use and since drain water only flows intermittantly it will have little effect.
It's like those Ionic Breeze air freshers at Sharper Image. They do work. The technology is valid. But the "big" one could probably only work in a closet. It's way too small to have any useful impact as advertisied.

quote Originally posted by dsnover: The price is outrageous, but the principle may be sound. Hot water leaving the house via the drain certainly does take energy with it. If you flow cold water through the wrapped pipe, it -will- absorb the heat from the drain pipe, and it -will- reduce the load on the water heating device. I've seen heat recovery units for fresh air exchanges that work similarly, so as to allow for fresh air for a tightly sealed house, without losing too much heat. Problems I see with it, which may or may not be relevant: If you are draining cold water, obviously you won't be recovering any heat. But then again, plumbed properly so that it only flows water through the small tubing based on -hot- water usage would mostly negate that disadvantage. Secondarily, by having a wrap like that, you have likely decreased flow for the hot water heater, so overall pressure may suffer on the hot water side of things. Again, though, I think the theory of this is actually sound, even if the price is crazy stupid high. It's just a heat exchanger after all, and thermal energy is fairly easy to recover. (Unlike the 'magnet' stuff on fuel lines).

That is how scams like this work, its often based on a legit principle so it is convincing.

For this to work it needs to be far better engineered.

quote Originally posted by User00013170: That is how scams like this work, its often based on a legit principle so it is convincing. For this to work it needs to be far better engineered.

I'm not certain that this is a scam, other than the price (again, IMHO inflated due to government 'incentives'). Several sizes are actually offered, and although I personally don't use Home Depot, they are at least a major retailer, with -some- reputation at stake.

I think it would be quite easy to DIY build something like this, to test for viability....might be surprisingly effective at recovering otherwise waste heat...

I think that the pricing was a misprint. It should read $6.26.

quote Originally posted by dsnover: I'm not certain that this is a scam, other than the price (again, IMHO inflated due to government 'incentives'). Several sizes are actually offered, and although I personally don't use Home Depot, they are at least a major retailer, with -some- reputation at stake. I think it would be quite easy to DIY build something like this, to test for viability....might be surprisingly effective at recovering otherwise waste heat...

I have seen the above magnets sold at major retailers . 'reputation' is over rated.

And i agree, DIY would be easy, and a better chance of doing a good job. Id suggest reversing the layout tho. Immerse the coil in a larger pipe that you have flow thru.. The more surface area you have the better it will transfer heat.

[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 08-08-2013).]

quote Originally posted by ls3mach: I really expected you to be 5'5". I mean all the pissing and moaning you do, like a woman, I really thought it was just little guy syndrome.

No, no, no...thats 5'5" laying on my back

in the winter, I dont have the drain open when I shower. keep the "hot" water in the tub. drain later when it "room temp".

I think that works out for more heat recovery than that device - and its free.

tho, I suppose there is the clothes washer. I do retain the heat from the dryer.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: in the winter, I dont have the drain open when I shower. keep the "hot" water in the tub. drain later when it "room temp". I think that works out for more heat recovery than that device - and its free. tho, I suppose there is the clothes washer. I do retain the heat from the dryer.

I have always heard its bad to vent the dryer in the house, even if its electric.

quote Originally posted by User00013170: I have always heard its bad to vent the dryer in the house, even if its electric.

I believe it has to do with humidity levels in your house. I think in the winter, it really isn't an issue, but in summer, I wouldn't want to do it. Depends on where you live

quote Originally posted by User00013170: I have always heard its bad to vent the dryer in the house, even if its electric.

there is a added lint trap, the humidity is a issue. but, this is only in the winter, and in the basement.

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: No, no, no...thats 5'5" laying on my back

Damn, your stomach is that big? I think you should consider a diet and stay off horses. Those poor things don't need that much weight on their backs. Oh, and lay off the beers.

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 08-08-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Rallaster: "The Power-Pipe will typically pay for itself in 2 to 10 years"

That's what she said.