I was supposed to get a new starter with this car. For a month a and a half he has ignorred me. I gave it some time. I know he's in the military, and may have been unable to get back to me. The other day he sent me the following PM:
Hellyes, i am sorry i didnt get that changed in time or sent you that. My parents took the starter back to wherever dad bought it at... The starter was my fathers orginally cause he was gonna fix the car for me. Im sorry i figured they'd tell the driver that picked it up this info... I am sorry. Soaper
Imo, I either need a start or $75 to make it right. Did I get a good deal regardless? yes. That doesn't make it alright for Soaper or his father to steal from me though. I paid the asking price, no haggling. I even overpaid the paypal to make sure they got the full asking price after frees.
It's really not that far to drive. I may make a trip out to talk it over with your father if you are unwilling to make it right.
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02:45 PM
PFF
System Bot
LAMBO Member
Posts: 1677 From: Lucas, Iowa, USA Registered: May 2000
He screwed me too, I baught some engine parts from him and he never shipped, and would not reply to my PM's.
Mike
I've got some extra parts. Let me know what you need and maybe I can come up with them if you pay shipping. Heck if you can drive down I'll give you a whole engine.
[This message has been edited by Mike Murphy (edited 08-11-2005).]
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03:36 PM
ditch Member
Posts: 3780 From: Brookston, IN Registered: Mar 2003
Imo, I either need a start or $75 to make it right. .
If you were promised a new starter with it then either of the above is what is owed to you. Sorry to hear this happened. I don't like seeing people get ripped off. I've done many transactions on PFF and to date haven't been screwed once. I know the day will come though.
BTW, I've read several threads with complaints about this member. People should just stay away from sellers who do these things...EVEN if they eventually make it right.
If you need a starter core when you buy a new one, I have an old one and you can have it for free.
Dave
[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 08-11-2005).]
Thank you for posting. Everytime I do a transaction outside of Paypal or Ebay (As I can cancle payment on CC), I ALWAYS search PFF for threads such as this, members to avoid.
Thanks again!
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02:11 AM
carolinajoe Member
Posts: 822 From: Spring Hill,Fl. Registered: Feb 2005
To me it sounds like he was up-front with you and did not know his dad took the starter back without his knowledge. Maybe if it is such a big deal you should give him the car back and get your $200
I know he could sell that car without a starter for $200 again. But, to expect him to get a starter for $75 is kinda ludicrius. And yes it is partly his fault and also yours as whom ever picked it up, if not you, should've checked. I guess the giddiness of getting such a decent car for only $200 clouded your judgement.
How's that saying go "Buyer Beware"
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06:32 AM
HellYes Member
Posts: 736 From: CLifton, IL 60927 Registered: Mar 2005
To me it sounds like he was up-front with you and did not know his dad took the starter back without his knowledge.
He was not up front with me. I asked about the starter when I got off work and the car had been delivered without it. He ignorred me for over a month, and then tells me tough **** . This does not seem very "up front" to me.
quote
Maybe if it is such a big deal you should give him the car back and get your $200
I know he could sell that car without a starter for $200 again.
You are so smart. I should do that. I'll just pay another $125 to ship it back and only be out a total of $250 and all the work I have put into the car between then and now. I will get $200 back though. Omg.. it's so simple.
quote
But, to expect him to get a starter for $75 is kinda ludicrius.
I'm not expecting him to pay $75 dollars. That would imply that he would be out something. I expect that the money gained from returning the starter be used to either procure a new one, or sent directly to me. This is money they got selling something that belongs to me. That would make it my money, wouldn't it. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
quote
And yes it is partly his fault and also yours as whom ever picked it up, if not you, should've checked.
George did more than what he was paid to do. I don't think it was at all his responsability to verify that there as a starter in the trunk. He had to load a car that was in no way prepared for shipping, as I was assured it would be. Two wheels were completely locked up. He had to drag it into his trailer, and dump it out. I believe it was sitting on one or more flats also.
quote
I guess the giddiness of getting such a decent car for only $200 clouded your judgement.
How's that saying go "Buyer Beware"
The deal included the starter, and it is in no way my fault that he did not make good on it.
He asked for that price. I did not haggle.
If you think I got a really incredible deal, think again. That car looks a lot better in the pics than in real life. Broken fender both seats ragged broken center console skeleton broken radio surround broken shift surround and bezel no headliner broken rockers (both sides) broken Pass side rear wheel well Brakes completely shot broken hood latch cable cut hood latch loop (hood side of latch) broken interior thrim passenger side base of door shocks and struts dead all the way around pass door lock broken every emblem broken or missing broken passenger side quarter drivers side rocker installed with nuts and bolts rusted solid passenger side with metal ¼" rivets visors both broken ( the rigid piece inside the visor) and crappy wheels that are the wrong offset put on with locking lugs I didn't get a key for
I'm not complaining that these things were wrong, I'm just letting you know it's not the car you are picturing. I expected most of this. the car with the starter was a fair deal for $200. I expected to get the brand new starter I was promised. I don't see where I am asking too much.
[This message has been edited by HellYes (edited 08-12-2005).]
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07:09 AM
RandomTask Member
Posts: 4545 From: Alexandria, VA Registered: Apr 2005
Its like when my boss went out to buy an SRT 10 truck. He ordered it and payed for it all up front. When he got it, they hadn't delivered the bed cover like he ordered (like a $1000 option). The dealership tried to just shrug it off and eventually even offering to compensate him for the option not being on there. He re-instated that he wanted what he originally payed for so finally after about a month of bickering, the dealership broke down and got a new truck. (he wanted the code as well as theres a lot of little differences in the bed since it has a spoiler)
I understand you, you payed for something and it was not delivered. This notion of "Its only $200" holds no water. Its YOUR $200 that you worked hard for and you should get what you've payed for ... my $.02
[This message has been edited by RandomTask (edited 08-12-2005).]
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08:03 AM
Indiana_resto_guy Member
Posts: 7158 From: Shelbyville, IN USA Registered: Jul 2000
To me it sounds like he was up-front with you and did not know his dad took the starter back without his knowledge. Maybe if it is such a big deal you should give him the car back and get your $200
I know he could sell that car without a starter for $200 again. But, to expect him to get a starter for $75 is kinda ludicrius. And yes it is partly his fault and also yours as whom ever picked it up, if not you, should've checked. I guess the giddiness of getting such a decent car for only $200 clouded your judgement.
How's that saying go "Buyer Beware"
The way I read his offer the starter IS or WOULD be included in the sale. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/026424.html All you need to do is read this in the post: "DOES NOT RUN needs a starter which i have purschased and will let go with the car with a few other stuff thats in the trunk..."
Soaper, come on and chime in here. Even though you gave me the shaft sometime ago this is pretty cut and dried, cough up a starter!
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08:30 AM
PFF
System Bot
Flyguyeddy Member
Posts: 568 From: pekin, Il USA Registered: Dec 2003
in his defense, he is in fact out of the state. and i have seen the car up close and personal, and sat in it and yadda yadda yadda
if you hadnt have gotten to it before me, i'd have it. at least it has a good frame and decent coupe bumpers and whatnot.
i say you bought a car sight unseen in good knowledge that it needed work. now the starter thing, i can understand.
who knows. i'm one of his freinds, so i may be a bit biased.
Friend or not, read his post! https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/026424.html All you need to do is read this in the post: "DOES NOT RUN needs a starter which i have purschased and will let go with the car with a few other stuff thats in the trunk..."
Buyer Beware? A man says something, things should be as he says they are. BTDT. If the seller advertised it as being sold with a starter, he owes the new owner a starter. At least a used one that works. Doesn't matter one ioto what the purchase price was--- even if it were just $1. A deal is a deal. There are 2 sides to a deal. SELLER: 1. Seller states what he is selling. 2, Seller states what condition it is in, and it's his job to go out and actually make sure it is true to the best of his knowledge before ever placing the ad. 3. Seller states what the sale includes. (He may chose to neglect to mention things are missing/damaged, or he might simply not notice some variances, but he should be very straightforward in what he says IS there) 4. Seller states where the vehicle is located. 5. Seller states price he is asking. 6. And, of course the seller should state the title conditions, and what, if any, shipping arrangements he will make.
That takes care of the seller's end of the deal-ONLY if things are as he says and he follows thru on any promises made. I bought a car over the internet a couple of yrs ago advertised as "Immaculate interior" & "Ice cold air". When my 'agent' picked it up, and delivered it to me, not long after the seller recieved full cash payment, the hoses weren't even connected to the compressor, and the headliner and headliner board were completely missing. Obviously, the AC didn't put out "ice cold air", hadn't for some time, and a bare ceiling and exposed wires didn't look exactly "immaculate"as advertised. This was an example of mis stating the condition of the car. The vehicle was worth the purchase price, but I wouldn't have purchsed it as readily, if I had known the true condition of the vehicle, as I also had to figure in how much transport fees were and add that to the cost of acquring the vehicle. It will cost me another $500 to get the A/C fixed. Water under the bridge.
BUYER:
1. The buyer states how much he will pay, whether it is the asking price or less. 2. The buyer has the obligation to ask about anything not actually stated by the seller. 3.The buyer pays the FULL agreed upon price promptly, (or within a specified agreed upon time period). 4. The buyer (or his agent) takes physical delivery of the vehicle.
When the seller has the funds in full amount in his sweaty little palm (check clears etc), and the buyer (or his agent) takes physical delivery, then this concludes the buyer's obligations to the seller. Period. This does NOT conclude the seller's obligations. It is his obligation to clear up any problems arising from HIS stated condition of the vehicle, whether it be from mis-understanding, falsely stating the condition, or failing to follow thru on any promises made as to the sale. As is-Where is/Buyer Beware only works if the seller has stated nothing to the contrary. This seller stated it would have a starter. It didn't. It's the seller's obligation to make it right. Is it a legal thing? Maybe. (not worth it in this case) More to the point, It's an ethics thing. A man's word should be his bond. I'll not be swayed from that ideal.
In this case, it seems that a 3rd party got involved and invalidated the seller's promise by taking the starter back. The 3rd party wasn't involved the the business deal. It falls back on the seller to make it right. It is also not the agent's or car hauler's responsibility to insure the car is as advertised. He is a 3rd party also, and part of a separate business deal. His only obligation is to deliver the vehicle in a timely manner in the same condition as it was when he picked it up.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 08-12-2005).]
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11:58 AM
skydad Member
Posts: 98 From: Covington, Louisiana, USA Registered: Dec 2004
well sorry about your deal falling into bad terms with soaper and now i know why your brother is coming to buy some of my interior for your car.....on another note i have many parts that you need to fix your interior just tell your brother to bring more money...
i have both se coupe rockers since you say yours are broken i have all bezels for interior (ie... speedo, radio) i have lower side quarter panels for driver and passenger i have radio surround a little warped but not broken
STUFF i have on my parts car 120 miles away i have a set of 14" tech wheels no tires i have a good drivers side fender passenger side is cracked a little
okay that is all i have to say about that since you are already buying the center skeleton, and 6 interior trim pieces from me and getting coupe bumpers free.
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05:54 PM
FastIndyFiero Member
Posts: 2546 From: Wichita, KS Registered: Aug 2002
As far as the condition of the car, I expected it to be in about this shape. I don't want to imply that I am unhappy with the car itself. I only listed the flaws to better illustrate the actual value of the car to people who have only seen pictures from 20 foot away.
The guy is only 173 miles from me. I am really tempted to pay a visit, but knowing my temper, I'm not sure it would be a positive thing, so I'm just going to call his father and talk it over with him on the phone. I'm having trouble believing that his father returned it. I think he did. If I call his father and explain that his kid is blaming **** on him, it might be the nudge he needs to get this resolved. I know if my father got a call like that when I was his age, the cost of a starter would have been he least of my worries.
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07:30 AM
DrFunk234 Member
Posts: 467 From: Oxford, NY, USA Registered: May 2005
only if u could go to court and get some punitive damages on top of your 75 dollors that would be worth it, lol:P yeah but anyways this aint right, keep nagging him, kick his ass to where he falls down reach into his pocket grab his wallet and steal 75 bucks from his wallet...hopefully there will be 75 in their though, maybe next time he'll learn. cuz he lost his 75 bucks and got jumped....hehe
Good Luck
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09:25 AM
Puck Member
Posts: 1501 From: Greenville, IL Registered: Dec 2000
Sorry Puck. I am interested in the coupe rockers, and the driver's side fender. I was comming off a 12 hour shift on 3 hours of sleep when I posted last night. Forgot to put that in .
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02:50 PM
Puck Member
Posts: 1501 From: Greenville, IL Registered: Dec 2000
I mentioned the wheels being put on with locking lug nuts. I was thinking of the wrong car. They were installed using washers on the lugs as wheel spacers, but they did not have locking lug nuts.
[/recant]
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02:34 AM
Gokart Member
Posts: 4635 From: Mashpee, Ma. USA Registered: May 99
We should post all good and bad transactions here https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/021717.html We need to keep this from getting archived! Maybe we could ask Cliff to pin it to the top of The Mall section for all to glance...like e-bay feedback.
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06:01 AM
Rborecky Member
Posts: 675 From: Cleveland,Ohio U.S. Registered: Oct 2003
That's the problem today. These folks and especially the kids, think a deal is nothing and a mans word is only as good as is until caught lying. Plain and simple you sell something, you give it up as you stated. If not I feel we should be able to beat you senseless so you understand where your parents forget to teach you. Cleveland has enacted a law now that if a kid gets into trouble the parents do jail time. I am so happy as it has gotten out of hand with people not caring about how they treat others. Rick B
I'm in your corner !!. You should of gotten a starter. Then on the other hand soaper or his dad may have figured "based on the long list of stuff the car needed" that it may be years before you would even crank the engine and a starter would be the last thing on your mind.
I would keep pestering him for one til he gives in.
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08:02 PM
Aug 19th, 2005
HellYes Member
Posts: 736 From: CLifton, IL 60927 Registered: Mar 2005
Sorry about your dealings with this kid. Hope you have better luck than most people have. He should not be allowed to sell anything on this forum considering all the problems he has given members. Seems like it's about time for Cliff to create something to be able to control who can sell stuff or who can't based on buyer feedback. The current member rating system isn't enough.
edit: Since he's in the military, if you can find out what unit he is assigned too. Contact his first sargeant and explain what happened. Should he agree with you, they will take it directly out of his pay.
[This message has been edited by TM_Fiero (edited 08-19-2005).]
Sorry about your dealings with this kid. Hope you have better luck than most people have. He should not be allowed to sell anything on this forum considering all the problems he has given members. Seems like it's about time for Cliff to create something to be able to control who can sell stuff or who can't based on buyer feedback. The current member rating system isn't enough.
edit: Since he's in the military, if you can find out what unit he is assigned too. Contact his first sargeant and explain what happened. Should he agree with you, they will take it directly out of his pay.
Wrong - the military cannot take anything directly out of someone's pay unless it is court ordered (alimony, etc.). They can counsel the individual as to the problems this may cause, but that's all.
Wrong - the military cannot take anything directly out of someone's pay unless it is court ordered (alimony, etc.). They can counsel the individual as to the problems this may cause, but that's all.
True, but he will not like the sort of counseling that comes with not paying a valid debt...
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09:38 PM
Aug 20th, 2005
Electrathon Member
Posts: 5241 From: Gresham, OR USA Registered: Dec 2002
Wrong - the military cannot take anything directly out of someone's pay unless it is court ordered (alimony, etc.). They can counsel the individual as to the problems this may cause, but that's all.
My son is in the Navy and that is definatly not the case there. He knows people that have has their pay taken and it was not even a valid dept. Sometimes it can take months to get it straightened out. Call his CO and it is very likely you will get the money.
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03:18 AM
topcat Member
Posts: 5486 From: Charleston SC Registered: Dec 2001
My son is in the Navy and that is definatly not the case there. He knows people that have has their pay taken and it was not even a valid dept. Sometimes it can take months to get it straightened out. Call his CO and it is very likely you will get the money.
Okay, here is the way it works with all branches of the Service. No military member can have their pay garnished without a court order, nor can any Commander order anyone to pay a debt. However we can counsel the member and hold them liable for not paying a valid debt. When I get a call that someone has not paid a debt, the first thing I do is quote the regulation to the person calling with the complaint, then I ask them to send me some evidence that the debt is real, and the military member failed to honor his end of the deal. After I get that proof (it has to be something other than we had a verbal agreement) I call the military member in and remind them of their responsibilities and of the regs the DOD established in regards to paying a valid debt. I give them a certain amount of time to provide me proof that they paid the debt, and if they can not provide it within that time frame it can become VERY uncomfortable for them They can recieve non-judicial punishment for not paying the debt. That can include losing rank, being fined, restriction extra duties, and in severe cases separation from the Service.
Sometimes, it can be an official censure that could be a reprimand, withholding promotion, and even court martial.
The thing that the military will not do is take the money out of a paycheck without a court order. The rationale... anyone can call and say I owe money, and if I dispute it, the court is the olnly way to resolve the dispute.
Oh, if anyone has not figured it out yet, my job in the military is dealing with just this scenerio.... I am an E-8; First Sergeant. The Commander delegates all debt issues for those in my unit to me.
Lastly, all branches of the service has the same code of conduct that is used to deal with misconduct, so it is the same for the Army, Navy, Marine, Air Force, and Guard/Reserve units (when called to active duty)
If you know the unit he is assigned to you can contact his First Sergeant, but do not expect the military to take the money out of his pay. Soaper will get "counseled", to take care of the debt. He will not like the outcome of not paying it.... as long as the caller can prove the debt is valid.
Edit - In the cases where there is not written proof, I will call the member in and ask them about the complaint, and if they entered into an agreement with the person that called. If they say they did enter into an agreement recieved the services or merchandise, but no reason for paying, the debt just became valid. Cheers!
[This message has been edited by topcat (edited 08-20-2005).]
Electrathon - if your son's command is "forcing" their Sailors to pay these outside debts, they are doing it illegally, and if their is proof of them doing, a whole bunch of heads can roll over this. As topcat and I said, the servicemember can only be counseled as to their fiscal responsibility, and unless it's court ordered or a government entity (i.e., the commissary, BX, Navy Exchange), then they basically don't have to pay anything if they don't want to, but would have to face the consequences of their unit or command (meaning someone like topcat, who would then make their life miserable, and it's legal for him to do that). If your son ever needs any type of advice on things like this as far as the Navy is concerned, LMK. I just retired in May after 20 years, and I worked administration my entire career, so I was directly involved in these things a lot.
