Just to let you guys know, for quite a while now I have been working on a 3800 swap wiring harness solution. There has been a few issues in the community with the process of mating an 8-15 year old harness with a 23-26 year old harness, solder joints, electrical tape, crimp connectors, corrosion, cracked wires, bad grounds, resistance, melting wires, fire, etc. Not to mention the cars that have had a swap for 10 years and are having electrical issues.

So to remedy this I am working with a company here in Wichita to build brand new swap harnesses. And recently through some diligent work I have sourced brand new C203 and C500 connectors, we are assembling an Autocad wiring schematic right now and hopefully within the next couple of months we will have our prototype harnesses ready for testing. I am doing a swap on my 88GT T-top car to an L26 and it will be a testbed vehicle for the first harnesses coming off the assembly line.

Dont be fooled into buying a harness thats hacked, soldered, crimped, and taped with ancient wiring to put into your pride and joy. Just hang tight and stay tuned to this thread for more info.

Likes this.

You'll probably have to consider a few harness options seeing how there are 3 series and some are supercharged. Also, there are different ECUs with different pinouts. After that, it sounds like a great product. Hopefully, it's at a great price.

I've also wanted to do a harness the proper way, with new wire, and the correct crimped terminals into original connectors, but that always meant sourcing original connectors for things like the C500, finding the correct terminals, and trying to find very oddly colored wires to keep them consistent with wiring diagrams. Can't wait to see how this turns out.

Interesting...

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86 Fiero 2M4 Silver, and 86 GT

Have you considered offering factory replacement harnesses as well? I figure since you'll probably have the CAD of it and source for materials anyway, it wouldn't take much more R&D and there might be a market. I don't know if there are any sources for new factory harnesses already.

So help me understand here. The purpose of the AutoCAD drawing is??? You are going to have these machine produced?

Since the pinouts are very similar from 1998-2002 we are going to standardize our harness to 2000 GT/GTP and if a guy needs his to fit 1998-99 or 01-02 we can repin the PCM to that year. If its L36/L67 or L26/L32 you can still run a 2000 GTP harness config and PCM. Very minor changes will have to be made, but nothing that will require re-tooling the assembly line. It will be stuff we can change back here at my shop.

I thought about building replacement fiero harnesses, the problem is the old connectors. It took me 2 weeks and a lot of hours on the internet and on the phone to track down the c500 and c203 connectors alone. I am on the hunt for the 2 piece hardshell grommet that snaps into the firewall allowing the wiring harness to pass through. I have the part numbers, the patent numbers, the blueprints and everything but I cant find a company with stock on the shelves as Delphi no longer makes them. Sourcing all the old style connectors might be a problem, but If they are available I could build new harnesses eventually.

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: So help me understand here. The purpose of the AutoCAD drawing is??? You are going to have these machine produced?

AutoCAD has quite a few tool bars and other features for electrical prints. We use it at work for all our electrical prints. There are quite a few other packages that cater more to the electrical schematics side, but AutoCAD works well if you have it.

So where multiple wires come together (+12v switched, +12v unswitched, +5v sensor power, logic grounds and power grounds) how are you going to connect the wires together if you aren't going to use crimps or solder joints?

Just wondering how many different wire colors & size combinations are there?

Multiple different automatics vs Manual is more than just switching a few pins around. Any thoughts on how you will handle that?

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: So where multiple wires come together (+12v switched, +12v unswitched, +5v sensor power, logic grounds and power grounds) how are you going to connect the wires together if you aren't going to use crimps or solder joints? Just wondering how many different wire colors & size combinations are there? Multiple different automatics vs Manual is more than just switching a few pins around. Any thoughts on how you will handle that?

There will be solder joints as the factory 3800 harness would, im talking solder joints and crimp joints splicing 2 antique harnesses together. The wire color and size will be as factory 3800. We will be making the harnesses for 4t65e only, because if you are using a 4t60e you are wasting your time, might as well run an obd1 computer. If a guy has a manual, the transmission circuits will be deleted. Thats how that will be handled.

I know you are taking offense to this because you are starting to make swap harnesses, dont let it detour you. Business is business. I dont have a sellable product yet so do what you gotta do.

quote Dont be fooled into buying a harness thats hacked, soldered, crimped, and taped with ancient wiring to put into your pride and joy. Just hang tight and stay tuned to this thread for more info.

Yeah I do take offense at that. I don't believe I am fooling anyone when I sell them a harness.

I have yet to see a harness that wasn't damaged go bad in either a 10 year old 3800 or a 25 year old Fiero. I don't see the logic of thinking I need a harness built with 'new' wires in a 25 year old car. As you know factory harnesses for both the Fiero and the 3800 have soldered joints in them. Properly soldered joints do not fail under normal conditions. And for those who didn't know, well now you know. When I build a harness I totally disassemble it. Then I reassemble it wire by wire. After reassembling it I test everything i can.

My 67 Mustang still runs fine with it's 44 year old harnesses in it. Yeah the engine harness on it isn't stock anymore since I am running electronic ignition on a 73 351 Cleveland. Yes not as many wires but none of them have gone bad.

It surely makes sense to replace your 'wear' parts with new. New brake pads. New clutch. Don't try to reuse your old upholstery. Things that fail or wear out should be replaced with new.

Factory harnesses are soldered, crimped, and taped. They work quite well. Even at 25+ years. I have yet to see one that is worn out.

What's the price going to look like?

Injection Technology already makes a harness with new wires for the 4.9L and 3800 swaps. I think that they recycle the c500 and c203 plugs, but the rest are new. The only negative to them is the price is high.

How do you think your prices will compare?

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-Brian

My 87 GT Poly Suspension Upgrade (all pics) thread
Removing the roof panel

Crap?!!!!!!

Injection Technology is $750 for a 3800 Fiero SC/NA harness outrght and $650 for one with a trade in (core)

I need to raise my prices.

http://injectiontechnology.com/products.htm

Item 22

quote Harnesses come with labeled connections and instruction sheet. All wire is factory specified type. All connectors and terminals are new.

It makes you wonder why they would give you $100 for your "core" harness if everything is new.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 05-19-2011).]

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: Crap?!!!!!! Injection Technology is $750 for a 3800 Fiero SC/NA harness outrght and $650 for one with a trade in (core) I need to raise my prices.

Whoa... let's just hold on there a minute, how about after you do one for me?

Sounds promising, I look forward to further updates.

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: Yeah I do take offense at that. I don't believe I am fooling anyone when I sell them a harness. I have yet to see a harness that wasn't damaged go bad in either a 10 year old 3800 or a 25 year old Fiero. I don't see the logic of thinking I need a harness built with 'new' wires in a 25 year old car. As you know factory harnesses for both the Fiero and the 3800 have soldered joints in them. Properly soldered joints do not fail under normal conditions. And for those who didn't know, well now you know. When I build a harness I totally disassemble it. Then I reassemble it wire by wire. After reassembling it I test everything i can. My 67 Mustang still runs fine with it's 44 year old harnesses in it. Yeah the engine harness on it isn't stock anymore since I am running electronic ignition on a 73 351 Cleveland. Yes not as many wires but none of them have gone bad. It surely makes sense to replace your 'wear' parts with new. New brake pads. New clutch. Don't try to reuse your old upholstery. Things that fail or wear out should be replaced with new. Factory harnesses are soldered, crimped, and taped. They work quite well. Even at 25+ years. I have yet to see one that is worn out.

Its not that you are trying to fool anyone. I have done harnesses in the past too, and I just dont like doing them anymore after we had an issue with one melting down on us awhile back. Think of it this way, why would painless be in business if wiring lasted forever? How about that 57 Chevy? Going to trust that old harness? I have a 73 Firebird Formula, one day I lost my right front turn signal (no it wasnt the bulb), then about a month later I lost my left front. I checked wiring top to bottom, never could find the problem. The wiring is getting older on these things every day. I have seen GTP's with wiring that is falling apart after 12 years. Those engines get really hot, the loom cracks and crumbles like a potato chip then next thing you know wires are rubbing on a supercharger housing, or alternator bracket and you have failures. Also, a 3800 in the back of a Fiero is not "normal conditions". You know they get really freaking hot back there, and a lot of guys are doing turbos now. Even hotter.

Dont take it personally man, I just saw your thread yesterday but have been working on this project for months. I have been in the Fiero/3800 game for a decade. I might not have as many posts as you, but everyone here knows me and my reputation.

As for price, my price target is $500-550. We should be able to stay within that because the uncertainty with the price when we began to discuss this with the business that is helping me with this project was dependent on sourcing the c203 and c500 connectors. I didnt want to use any old components, and since I found them myself we are good to go.

Also what are you guys thoughts on deleting the connector that attaches the ICM harness and making the ICM, crank and cam sensors plugs integrated into the harness?

Well here is my response in the same light as your post.

Don't be fooled by people promising "completely new 3800/Fiero harnesses" when they haven't made a prototype harness, don't expect to have a prototype for months, who knows when they would be going into beta and don't have any dates for production. There's not much of a chance of you having a 3800 Fiero in the 2011 Fiero season.

Oh and

"Dont take it personally man,"

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 05-19-2011).]

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: Well here is my response in the same light as your post. Don't be fooled by people promising "completely new 3800/Fiero harnesses" when they haven't made a prototype harness, don't expect to have a prototype for months, who knows when they would be going into beta and don't have any dates for production. There's not much of a chance of you having a 3800 Fiero in the 2011 Fiero season. Oh and "Dont take it personally man,"

This is starting to look like your only purpose is to interfere with his for sale thread. It would be one thing if he was ripping people off and you wanted to let potential buyers know, but you're making something personal he never even aimed at you. Not once did he mention your name. Quite a few people have made comments on how they are thinking of making 3800 harnesses, some of which have absolutely no experience with these, and I'm sure he was referring to them. Either way, if your only reason for being in this thread is to start a pissing match because he's making a product PEOPLE HAVE ASKED HIM TO MAKE, then you should really just pay attention to your own thread. He said he didn't mean it towards you, what else do you want him to say?

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 05-20-2011).]

There are a lot of people that do harnesses and what I am trying to do is set a standard of quality at a fair price. Also I am working toward a reasonable low mount alternator bracket, and I have a solution for axles.

Well it's not really a sale thread as he has nothing to sell yet. But when he does, that's cool. I believe in the free enterprise system. If you can make a better product for less money more the power to you.

Good luck on your endeavor fieroX.

wow, im excited to see what your able to do when it comes to mass production, i know someone that does the new wires and connectors aswell, but being machined would be awesome, +'s for even trying, this feat, good luck, cant wait for updates,

phone - just because used parts may do fine? and hold aswell as new parts? some people prefer new parts, i do because my goal is to make my car like a new one? suspension, engine, interior exterior etc... so why not just get new if its available?

if the price was reasonable I'd be interested...but I don't have a car for it to go in anymore...
my 88 will never see a 3800, unless for some unholy reason I want an automatic car again........LOL
(Izuzu + 3800 S/C = YAY FAST FIERO!!!! then a few miles down the road crunch bang boom)

Fierox,
Nice to hear of this service. I PLAN to go the 3800 route either turbo or SC but at some point when funds allow I plan to have a 3800 in my 86 GT. Mechanical and fabrication I can do but the electronics side is where I step back and TRY to let the pro's do it. I am anxious to see what you come up with here even tho it will be awhile before I am ready for one.

SO when are you gonna drop that nice little fiero of yours down into the nines???!! You are kinda holding the candle here for all of us Fiero Nutjobs that would love to tell all their friends that Yeah there are stock bodies fiero's that run nines!! Hop to it man.... time's a wastin'!! haha.... peace

Pete

quote Originally posted by gtxbullet: if the price was reasonable I'd be interested...but I don't have a car for it to go in anymore... my 88 will never see a 3800, unless for some unholy reason I want an automatic car again........LOL (Izuzu + 3800 S/C = YAY FAST FIERO!!!! then a few miles down the road crunch bang boom)

So swap in a Getrag or Muncie? Pretty easy to swap in a Getrag in your case.

quote Originally posted by mptighe: This is starting to look like your only purpose is to interfere with his for sale thread. It would be one thing if he was ripping people off and you wanted to let potential buyers know, but you're making something personal he never even aimed at you. Not once did he mention your name. Quite a few people have made comments on how they are thinking of making 3800 harnesses, some of which have absolutely no experience with these, and I'm sure he was referring to them. Either way, if your only reason for being in this thread is to start a pissing match because he's making a product PEOPLE HAVE ASKED HIM TO MAKE, then you should really just pay attention to your own thread. He said he didn't mean it towards you, what else do you want him to say?

I agree.

By your logic every single Fiero should have the whole harness rebuilt

You can say that for people that want a brand new harness, you will have them. You don't need to try and make it sound like old harnesses are awful. Each wire is crimped at both ends. Pretty sure solder will outlast all of those pins

[This message has been edited by FriendOfYours (edited 05-21-2011).]

quote Originally posted by fieroX: There are a lot of people that do harnesses and what I am trying to do is set a standard of quality at a fair price. Also I am working toward a reasonable low mount alternator bracket, and I have a solution for axles.

more info on the axles please.

quote Originally posted by fieroX: There are a lot of people that do harnesses and what I am trying to do is set a standard of quality at a fair price. Also I am working toward a reasonable low mount alternator bracket, and I have a solution for axles.

I think this is good news to the Fiero connunity. You can become kind of the 3800 Archie Now that I am doing a 3800 I can attest for the lack of standardization in these swaps. I know there are many options but by now we should have couple of standard recipies. I'm looking forward for the low mount Alt and the axles if they come quick.
On the harness side I know you need a selling point and the burning platform of using "very old" harnesses may work for some. But still there are out there good low milage 3800 harnesses that would be more than ok to use and if done right be reliable for a long period. I know from my V8 swap (using stock V6 harness) that GM wiring is of very high quality. For the 3800 on the Fiero part not much is used so I don't think that is a super risk. Still I think it is great for someone to offer that kind of product to us so I hope you find the right support.

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Red: TPI V8 + 6-Speed White: 3800SC auto
304rwHP/366rwTQ

Any Harnesses yet?

lol brought back from the dead

lol