I've got some performance intakes for sale.

Have a look.










For $500 exchange plus shipping, you get a big bore throttle body and a modified upper plenum (EGR delete only). The plenum TB opening has been ported to match the TB.

Please PM orders thank you.

Damien

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You Dream it Up -- I'll Build it

hmmm.. interesting.. ill have to see what some others who have them say before i can plunk down any cash though..

I picked up some decent gains doing something similar to this on a 3500 upper plenum. The stock 2.8 one has an even bigger bottleneck. GLWS, good idea!

quote Originally posted by Dawg: Have a look.

interesting indeed, but i'm sorry, what am i seeing here?

quote Originally posted by DLCLK87GT: interesting indeed, but i'm sorry, what am i seeing here?

Looks like a stock throttle blade sitting on the larger throttle blade to illustrate the bored throttle body. Just a guess, though. I still like my twin throttle body intake better, I like the throttle response. Next step is ITB's, but I'll ditch the 2.8 long before then, maybe on a 3800...

What you are seeing is indeed the old throttle plate placed in front of the new one. Shows you how much bigger everything is.

DG

quote Originally posted by DLCLK87GT: interesting indeed, but i'm sorry, what am i seeing here?

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You Dream it Up -- I'll Build it

quote Originally posted by Dawg: What you are seeing is indeed the old throttle plate placed in front of the new one. Shows you how much bigger everything is.

The difference shown suggests to me your new throttle body is 56 or 57mm, versus 52mm for the stocker, but rather than me guessing, what size actually is it?

Similarly, I see what you've done to increase the cross-sectional area of the stock manifold, because I'm looking at the nearly flat (except for the EGR fitting) underside of a stock manifold I've at home right now, but I can't even hazard a guess (especially without a side-by-side photographic comparison) how much your modification has increased it. Do you know how much the increase in its cross-sectional area actually is?

By the way, I think your modifications might have substantial appeal to those who prefer a manifold whose external appearance is close to that of the stock set-up which GM installed on Fiero V6 engines 22 to 25 years ago (even if its performance doesn't reach that of an aftermarket unit like the Trueleo intake manifold).

If you need more upper manifolds to make these from, let me know. I think I have two at home I could package up and send you.

Chris

You are correct, 56mm.

I don't have any hard numbers but the bottom of the neck is now well rounded where it was flat before. If I had to guess, I'd say 20% larger.

I think you're right about the stock appeal. I like the look of the stock intake myself. It sure is more compact than the Trueleo and cheaper.

quote Originally posted by project34: The difference shown suggests to me your new throttle body is 56 or 57mm, versus 52mm for the stocker, but rather than me guessing, what size actually is it? Similarly, I see what you've done to increase the cross-sectional area of the stock manifold, because I'm looking at the nearly flat (except for the EGR fitting) underside of a stock manifold I've at home right now, but I can't even hazard a guess (especially without a side-by-side photographic comparison) how much your modification has increased it. Do you know how much the increase in its cross-sectional area actually is? By the way, I think your modifications might have substantial appeal to those who prefer a manifold whose external appearance is close to that of the stock set-up which GM installed on Fiero V6 engines 22 to 25 years ago (even if its performance doesn't reach that of an aftermarket unit like the Trueleo intake manifold).

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You Dream it Up -- I'll Build it

Do you sell the TB individually? Price?

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87 SE 60* Turbo

Screw the L67...

PM sent

quote Originally posted by doublec4: If you need more upper manifolds to make these from, let me know. I think I have two at home I could package up and send you. Chris

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You Dream it Up -- I'll Build it

quote Originally posted by Dawg: I really feel that a big bore TB on a stock manifold is a lost cause. So I'm only geared towards the package. I have no extras at the moment anyway. Sorry. DG

Who said it was stock? lol

Thanks anyway.

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87 SE 60* Turbo

Screw the L67...

Have you done any flow testing on it? How does it compare to a stock 3.4 intake?

Nope....no fancy testing as of yet. Just people who have done similar mods saying it was the easiest 10 to 15 HP they ever made. If you've done everything else, I don't see why this couldn't get you an additional 20HP over and above.

Keep in mind that this will help you get more out of other upgrades. If you port your exhaust manifolds you get some benefit for instance. If you make the engine breath better, you'll get even more out of your exhaust job.

Apparently doing this brings a performance cam alive. The engine should pull hard all the way to red line instead of crapping out early.

DG

quote Originally posted by Rick 88: Have you done any flow testing on it? How does it compare to a stock 3.4 intake?

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You Dream it Up -- I'll Build it

quote Originally posted by Dawg: I don't have any hard numbers but the bottom of the neck is now well rounded where it was flat before. If I had to guess, I'd say 20% larger. I think you're right about the stock appeal. I like the look of the stock intake myself. It sure is more compact than the Trueleo and cheaper.

I initially and erroneously thought your comment about your set-up being considerably less expensive than the Trueleo to be a bit of a stretch, until I remembered your price also includes a bored-out throttle body, and the Trueleo set-up does not.

However, like a number of people on ths forum, I don't need a bored-out throtle body because I already have one (57mm, by Darrel Morse). Accordingly, might you have a price for just your modified Fiero intake manifold, without the throttle body?

Well as chance would have it, I do have several intakes at the moment. I could not only offer an exchange price but also a direct sale price.

How about $350 exchange and $400 direct sale. Plus shipping.

DG

quote Originally posted by project34: I initially and erroneously thought your comment about your set-up being considerably less expensive than the Trueleo to be a bit of a stretch, until I remembered your price also includes a bored-out throttle body, and the Trueleo set-up does not. However, like a number of people on ths forum, I don't need a bored-out throtle body because I already have one (57mm, by Darrel Morse). Accordingly, might you have a price for just your modified Fiero intake manifold, without the throttle body?

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You Dream it Up -- I'll Build it

quote Originally posted by Dawg: Well as chance would have it, I do have several intakes at the moment. I could not only offer an exchange price but also a direct sale price. How about $350 exchange and $400 direct sale. Plus shipping. DG

Dawg:

Is that direct sale price for the intake and bored TB? IF so, will it be an engraved intake?

thanks
Nolan

[This message has been edited by Sourmug (edited 04-28-2010).]

Hi Nolan.

All my engraved intakes get snatched up locally. We have a very active club. The only way to get an engraved one is to send me one in the exchange and then expect delays till I get around to doing yours.

And no....The direct sale is for an upper plenum only and it's for a limited time. I only have a few extras at the moment.

Thanks.

DG

quote Originally posted by Sourmug: Dawg: Is that direct sale price for the intake and bored TB? IF so, will it be an engraved intake? thanks Nolan

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You Dream it Up -- I'll Build it

What I would like to know is how you welded aluminum that nice. (it is aluminum, right?)

What can I say....I'm a multi talented guy.... Yes it is aluminum. Not easy to weld for sure.

Thanks for the compliment.

DG

quote Originally posted by mattwa: What I would like to know is how you welded aluminum that nice. (it is aluminum, right?)

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You Dream it Up -- I'll Build it

DG:

Do you have any pictures from the side?

Let me see what I can come up with.

quote Originally posted by Sourmug: DG: Do you have any pictures from the side?

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You Dream it Up -- I'll Build it

Any way to add the stock EGR fitting?

Combine these ppg pace car intake mods,

quote Originally posted by RAREW66: Here are some pictures of the engine and related components: The intake mainifold is modified to eliminate the runners and provide one large plenum. A plate is welded straight across the bottom of the intake increasing the volume significantly. It will be interesting to see what is inside when I have time.

with your mods and I think you would have one heck of a performance manifold with a near factory look. What do you think? Would that be doable?

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88blackchopv8

Dawg, what type of material are you using to make the welds?

I ask only because some materials understandably could affect how one might finish the intake manifold.

For example, my understanding is the 5 percent silicon content of 4043 filler wire would cause the weld to turn black during anodizing. If so, that would make an intake manifold that is anodized in a shade of red, like that of the stock intake manifold, to look fairly ugly because of the blackened weld. In turn, that presumably mandates that the intake manifold buyer either use something other than anodizing, like simply painting the manifold red, or maybe, for example, anodizing the entire manifold black instead of red.

Similarly, with respect to the picture reproduced below, besides the welds used, what material is the semi-cylindrical section which replaced the previously flat underside of the manifold's neck made of?

quote Originally posted by Dawg: [

quote Originally posted by project34: Dawg, what type of material are you using to make the welds? I ask only because some materials understandably could affect how one might finish the intake manifold. For example, my understanding is the 5 percent silicon content of 4043 filler wire would cause the weld to turn black during anodizing. If so, that would make an intake manifold that is anodized in a shade of red, like that of the stock intake manifold, to look fairly ugly because of the blackened weld. In turn, that presumably mandates that the intake manifold buyer either use something other than anodizing, like simply painting the manifold red, or maybe, for example, anodizing the entire manifold black instead of red. Similarly, with respect to the picture reproduced below, besides the welds used, what material is the semi-cylindrical section which replaced the previously flat underside of the manifold's neck made of?

Would powdercoating be discolored by the welds?

Leaving it there limits how much I can open it up and trying to overcome that limitation would involve special fixtures that would up the price. If someone wants something more custom made just PM me the details and I'll come up with a price. No problem.

DG

quote Originally posted by rjblaze: Any way to add the stock EGR fitting?

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You Dream it Up -- I'll Build it

To be honest I don't know off hand. There are two alloys that are commonly used. One is easier to use and goes on smooth. The other is not so easy to deal with but is stronger. I always use the first one. I think the 4043 is the stronger one.

For your information, that is not anodizing on these manifolds, it is paint. I would not recommend anodizing cast aluminum either way. The results never seem to be as nice as "billet" parts.

The insert is made from 6061-T6.

DG

quote Originally posted by project34: Dawg, what type of material are you using to make the welds? I ask only because some materials understandably could affect how one might finish the intake manifold. For example, my understanding is the 5 percent silicon content of 4043 filler wire would cause the weld to turn black during anodizing. If so, that would make an intake manifold that is anodized in a shade of red, like that of the stock intake manifold, to look fairly ugly because of the blackened weld. In turn, that presumably mandates that the intake manifold buyer either use something other than anodizing, like simply painting the manifold red, or maybe, for example, anodizing the entire manifold black instead of red. Similarly, with respect to the picture reproduced below, besides the welds used, what material is the semi-cylindrical section which replaced the previously flat underside of the manifold's neck made of?

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You Dream it Up -- I'll Build it

quote Originally posted by project34: Dawg, what type of material are you using to make the welds? I ask only because some materials understandably could affect how one might finish the intake manifold.

quote Originally posted by Dawg: To be honest I don't know off hand. There are two alloys that are commonly used. One is easier to use and goes on smooth. The other is not so easy to deal with but is stronger. I always use the first one. I think the 4043 is the stronger one.

I think it's actually the other way around, that it's the 4043 that is the easier-to-use alloy you reported using, but it causes welds to blacken during anodizing, whereas the 5356 is the more-difficult-to-use and stronger one, which happens to take to anodizing better (without the welds being blackened by it).

However, the use of 4043 filler is by no means a deal-breaker for me.

quote Originally posted by Dawg: For your information, that is not anodizing on these manifolds, it is paint. I would not recommend anodizing cast aluminum either way. The results never seem to be as nice as "billet" parts.

I understand. I used anodizing only to illustrate my earlier point that "some materials understandably could affect how one might finish the intake manifold."

quote Originally posted by project34: ...besides the welds used, what material is the semi-cylindrical section which replaced the previously flat underside of the manifold's neck made of?

quote Originally posted by Dawg: The insert is made from 6061-T6.

Assuming that is the same aluminum as that used for Fiero V6 valve covers, that would be good news for me. I've a set of those valve covers which have been chrome-plated, and although some shops nearby me don't want to fool with even trying to chrome plate aluminum, a place I found relatively nearby did a good job chrome plating those aluminum valve covers.


I'd think they theoretically could do a good job on chrome plating your modified Fiero intake manifold for me as well, but as you know, chrome highlights even the most minute metal finishing imperfections, so I'd have to figure out a way to further smoothen your welds, and I already know that simply doing that with some J-B Weld would not work at all well with chrome plating overlaid on that.


Might you have any suggestions for me to be able to further smoothen your 4340 welds, and to check that there are no leaks in them?

The problem with digging into aluminum welds is they can be porous here and there. The outer surface looks great and is sealed because it was the most protected by the shielding gas while being welding. The inner surface of the weld was exposed to the atmosphere while molten and could have developed some small cavities.

I would say it's unlikely that you would have a problem but I can't guarantee it.

The bottom line is you really can only see the front edge of the neck anyways. I could make sure that it is flush for you to polish later.

If however you want it all smooth I should do it here in case I see some voids that need to be welded closed. Of course this would add to the cost.

There are many ways to check for leaks. Easiest would be to mount it on the engine and spray ether (starting fluid) over the area while the engine is running. The RPM's will rise if any gets in.

quote Originally posted by project34: I'd think they theoretically could do a good job on chrome plating your modified Fiero intake manifold for me as well, but as you know, chrome highlights even the most minute metal finishing imperfections, so I'd have to figure out a way to further smoothen your welds, and I already know that simply doing that with some J-B Weld would not work at all well with chrome plating overlaid on that. Might you have any suggestions for me to be able to further smoothen your 4340 welds, and to check that there are no leaks in them?

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You Dream it Up -- I'll Build it

Hey All, Dawg asked me to fire up a quick review of his system, seeing as I have it installed on my 88GT daily driver it gave me a good chance to say, "I know how the car performs every day, day in and day out, so I notice the difference"

At idle everything sounds about the same, however that first crack of the throttle you know something is different, the engine just revs quicker. Everyone that drives there car, gets use to pushing the gas to a certain point in the pedal to accelerate, and the first time I went to drive away from a stop I could tell the engine was breathing better. It does no longer seems to struggle up to the higher rpms. You just step on the gas and it goes. I did notice that my air fuel ratio has dropped and no longer running full rich at Wide Open Throttle at 6000rpms, so I am going to have to look into adding extra fuel either via an adjustable FPR or a new chip. I am currently running a chip that electronically disables the EGR system, and I may get in touch with my chip guy to have him make me a chip to also increase the fuel map just a touch, however adding an adjustable fuel pressure regulator would also work just fine.

Well here are the pics of it installed.

Wow, great pictures Capt. Thanks for the effort. Looks pretty damn good if I say so myself.... I haven't had the time to put one on our car yet so you're the first with real world feedback.

It's obvious by the images that you really can't tell it's been modified at all. This was the goal.

Just for the record. Some people seem to have high idle problems with these over bored throttle bodies because of badly made throttle plates. Did you have any trouble getting your idle where you wanted it?

Last but not least. The intake looks nice in the pictures, but what about in person? In the end, were you happy with the quality of the finish for both parts?

Thanks again for taking the time to do this.

DG

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You Dream it Up -- I'll Build it

If this thing flows even 75 percent as well as a Trueleo it is probably worth it for easy HP. There is a huge difference in Trueleo vs. Stock at high RPM. My 3.4l hauls harder and harder until it redlines. If these flow as well or close to the Trueleo I'd take this one just because the stock plenum is so pretty.

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86GT Modded 3.4l V6/Getrag with Trueleo - 210WHP
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quote Originally posted by Dawg: Wow, great pictures Capt. Thanks for the effort. Looks pretty damn good if I say so myself.... I haven't had the time to put one on our car yet so you're the first with real world feedback. It's obvious by the images that you really can't tell it's been modified at all. This was the goal. Just for the record. Some people seem to have high idle problems with these over bored throttle bodies because of badly made throttle plates. Did you have any trouble getting your idle where you wanted it? Last but not least. The intake looks nice in the pictures, but what about in person? In the end, were you happy with the quality of the finish for both parts? Thanks again for taking the time to do this. DG

Nope no idle problems at all. Just installed, dialed the throttle plate closed, hooked up the scan tool, watched the IAC and opened up the throttle plate set screw just enough that I had a nice smooth idle and the IAC was sitting at about 50 on the scanner. Yep looks stock, looks nicer and cleaner than the one I removed. Finish was at or better than stock.

What do you guys think of a small decal on the neck that says "BIG BORE" or something like that? It could be an option if someone wants it.

I had someone comment that he'd have a hard time bragging about his intake if there was nothing to show that it was indeed modified.

Makes sense.

DG

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You Dream it Up -- I'll Build it

Man i would really love to see some stats on this intake vs a trueleo.. Just too see what the performance differences are. The trueleo will probably gain you more hp, but by how much i wonder? Just curious cause im getting ready to drop a 3.4 in. Its a new crate engine, so ill need a intake and headers. So far im planning to just go with a whole trueleo setup, but now im really interested in yours, cause i prefer to stock look myself.. Plus the trueleo, even though its a good product and good performer, it just damn ugly, lol.. (no offense to the trueleo peeps!) Although my Pop's likes the look of the trueleo better.. He likes the idea of popping the hood to show someone the new engine and them seeing the trueleo and thinking "WTF kind of engine is that?".. lol..

The price difference isnt really an issue with me.. I dont mind spending money of my car, even if i have to be patient so i can save up for a part.. But if the performance differences between a trueleo, and your intake is very little, then id go with yours simply cause it looks stock. But if the performance gain of a trueleo is a good bit higher than yours, then id spend the extra cash on the trueleo.

Please let me know if you ever do a compairison between the two, or if anyone else does any tests to see the differences..

P.S.. Dont mean to hijack, but its a related question.. What does deleting the EGR do exactally? Does it give a performance boost compaired to having one? Are there any drawbacks to not having one?

[This message has been edited by Jonesy (edited 06-17-2010).]

Hey Jonesy.

I've just started doing these so it's unlikely I'll get around to any scientific testing any time soon. But I highly doubt there would be a huge difference. The Trueleo looks like it would flow nicely in the runners but the real limitation has always been "up front". Once the throttle body and the neck are done, the rest of the stock plenum is well made I think.

This is something I don't do, but one could, to get a little more. You can port where the upper and lower plenums meet. This area can be the cause of turbulence and some loss in velocity. The size of the openings is fine but you need to make sure that they match. No sharp edges so to speak. If you were to do this, I would bet you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between them.

In fact, for street driving, the stock intake would be better. It's runners are longer which will give you better mid RPM performance. The shorter the runners, the narrower the "power band" and the more radical the throttle response. Great for the track, bad for the street where drive-ability is more important.

As for the EGR valve, it's purpose is to lower pollution emissions by redirecting some exhaust through the motor to be burned again. Personally, I think it does very little even when new never mind several years down the road. It's a carry over from the carbureted days.

Bottom line is you don't need one. People remove them to simplify their engine bays. I removed mine because on a Fiero the EGR valve throws a ton of heat against the coil and distributor.

One less thing to buy when it fails. Easier to work on a simple engine. Looks clean.

PS. I also sell modified stock exhaust manifolds. Perhaps a package deal would interest you?

DG

quote Originally posted by Jonesy: Man i would really love to see some stats on this intake vs a trueleo.. Just too see what the performance differences are. The trueleo will probably gain you more hp, but by how much i wonder? Please let me know if you ever do a compairison between the two, or if anyone else does any tests to see the differences.. P.S.. Dont mean to hijack, but its a related question.. What does deleting the EGR do exactally? Does it give a performance boost compaired to having one? Are there any drawbacks to not having one?

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You Dream it Up -- I'll Build it