Most of you know that I swapped a Volkswagen VR6 drivetrain into my wife's 1986 SE. Today, the Haus of Guru crew will be announcing that we are going to swap a Volkswagen TDI drivetrain into a 1988 Formula. Once the swap is completed and tested, the car will be auctioned off. The car will have fresh paint and all the maintenance brought current on the Volkswagen drivetrain before it leaves the Haus.
We plan on starting the physical portion of the swap in about a month or two. In the meantime, I'll be spending a few hours a day to figure out the wiring harness details.
The drivetrain is from a 2000 Jetta TDI (ALH) engine which we purchased an entire car. (I wanted to swap a Pumpe Duse engine, but we couldn't obtain a complete newer Jetta for a reasonable price).
The goal of this swap is not performance related, but directed towards fuel economy. We are hoping to achieve about 50mpg and still be emissions legal (at least in our state). We are also using an automatic transmission from the Jetta. We are also hoping to achieve the most reliable swap as well. It will be a fly by wire setup just like the VR6 swap. Basically, this drivetrain will still function as if it were to be in the Jetta. Whoever decides to purchase this swap once completed and tested needs to understand that this car will need a good Volkswagen indy repair shop to maintain this car, or an individual that understands TDI's.
Ok, with that being said, here is a teaser pic to get things started.....
You don't want a PD engine anyways with the way they destroy cams and lifters. If I had to pick a TDI to swap, it would be the ALH. Good choice! I will be watching this build as intently as the VR swap thread.
My DD is a '10 Jetta Sportwagen TDI and I get 42mpg out of a much heavier vehicle. I have no doubt you will achieve 50mpg with this drivetrain in a Fiero. I'd say 60mpg would be achievable.
------------------ '88 GT- 3800 Turbo 11.367@121.03mph gmtuners.com -Build info
[This message has been edited by AkursedX (edited 09-27-2010).]
I am so excited to see this. Its definitely one of my dream Fiero swaps but if only it was a stick. Good luck to ya and keep us updated!
I wanted to do a stick, but the Fiero is an automatic and I figured it was easier to just keep it to that. I do plan on doing these swaps in the future if this one works out as well as Joey's VR6 swap.....auto or stick. This one is the "test car" and I plan on keeping templates of all the custom parts that we will need to make for future reference.
I have ridden in my friend TDI 6-speed Jetta wagon. It really scoots. Is the trans in the one you are swapping a DSG box? It will interesting to see if you can get 50 mpg out of it in a Fiero.
Awesome! I'll be following this closely as well. This is sounds like a GREAT swap for those who want something better than the Dukey, but like the mileage (or better).
A few tasteful aero mods will help even more with the highway mileage, as Fieros aren't terribly aerodynamic. It'd be awesome to get 50mpg at 70+mph. In that case, I may have to buy one for my wife.
Sweet, I've been waiting for you to do this one for a while. Nothing wrong with an ALH - plenty of performance upgrades if you want to wake it up a bit. (although, may not be the best idea with the auto)
Ever since i got my Cummis powered RAM i been thinking about this... Is there a performance market for the VW diesels? With a tuner, intake and better lift pump im running 900+ ft/lbs of tq with the RAM!!
I would LOVE to do VW diesel swap! I want a TDI VW anyway! I tell my wife all the time!
We are very excited to get this swap going... I'm looking forward to helping out with whatever I can (probably the wiring and signing the pcm).
But... I'm not looking forward to the hubby and Ryan living, eating, and breathing the swap now, during, and for months after completion... I can only tolerate so much car talk... lol
Joey
------------------ 1986 SE powered by a Volkswagen VR6. Buck Wild! www.hausofguru.com
Ever since i got my Cummis powered RAM i been thinking about this... Is there a performance market for the VW diesels? With a tuner, intake and better lift pump im running 900+ ft/lbs of tq with the RAM!!
I would LOVE to do VW diesel swap! I want a TDI VW anyway! I tell my wife all the time!
Yes, there's a performance market for VW TDI's. They are fairly easy to get significant amounts of power from. Standard upgrades apply (chip, injection pump, larger VNT Turbos, etc).
Yes, there's a performance market for VW TDI's. They are fairly easy to get significant amounts of power from. Standard upgrades apply (chip, injection pump, larger VNT Turbos, etc).
I've seen an ALH has made 172whp and 326ft/lbs in his Jetta. I know he has a euro-spec VNT turbo (VNT-17 I think?) and I'm sure a lot of supporting mods.
I wouldn't be doing many mods on the auto transmission though. They don't take too well to added power.
BMWguru, would you mind if I cross-posted your posts to my local VW board (michiganvw.org)? I know there a lot of people on there who would like to see this build.
[This message has been edited by AkursedX (edited 09-29-2010).]
The build is going to start slow while I catch up on the other work. I'm getting the interest going because like I said before, this car will be put up for sale when it is completed.
I have to say yuck to a veggie conversion. I've installed a few and serviced many more. They produce too much soot and cause more damage or needed maintenance than free fuel. I have one customer with a 1995 E300D that comes in every 40,000 miles for me to replace the cylinder head because the veggie oil soots up the glow plugs, shorts them out, and when he tries to take them out he breaks them off in the head. Good for me, but I don't see the advantage. The other downside is the horrible smell the car makes. The interior smells like McDonalds. We should have a cool video of our donor car to post up on Tuesday. The car is pretty badly crushed on the passenger side, but we decided to take it for a ride anyway.....after all, we have to test everything out. The a/c even blows cold....we can't beat that. Dave
I would do BioDiesel before a veggie swap... I would never run veggie in my Ram.... Living in cold climate = veggie fail. Plus like GURU mentioned it gum stuff up... I dont have glow plugs to worry about but still wouldn't do it. I put some serious thought into running WMO (wast motor oil). Biodiesel is supposed to be much better for the system. Plus anything that helps lubricate is good for my stupid VP44 pump. I am not sure what kind of pump the VW's has though? Mine is fuel cooled and lubricated. Thats all dandy BUT with the removal of Sulfur from fuel there goes the lubricant! So i run TC-W3 2 stroke oil.
Any idea on the cost of the swap? Using the VW trans i assume? Is it going to be hard to program the ECU? I would LOVE to do this swap. I told my wife we arent buying another vehicle unless its a diesel! HAHA!
If this goes as planned, we will start offering TDI swaps at the Haus. The cost will be figured out once we look at the spreadsheet for this build. Basically, we will need a complete Golf or Jetta IV or V, a Fiero, and about a year of your time.....maybe less as we get better with these. I'm figuring we are going to sell this car for what you would expect to pay for a nice 1988 Formula + show quality 3800s/c swap. Basically, you're getting a car and a one-off swap. Our VR6 has been put to the test. Over 15,000 miles logged on it without a single issue. It has been to Kentucky, Boston, Long Island, on Fiero cruises, etc. I prefer to take that car over any of my other Fieros because I know it won't let me down. The pcm programming will not be an issue. Dave
We have too much fun at the Haus. The donor car was purchased from a salvage auction with a run and drive guarantee. We wanted to verify that was correct. The car actually ran very good despite the passenger side being crushed. Dave
If this goes as planned, we will start offering TDI swaps at the Haus. The cost will be figured out once we look at the spreadsheet for this build. Basically, we will need a complete Golf or Jetta IV or V, a Fiero, and about a year of your time.....maybe less as we get better with these. I'm figuring we are going to sell this car for what you would expect to pay for a nice 1988 Formula + show quality 3800s/c swap. Basically, you're getting a car and a one-off swap. Our VR6 has been put to the test. Over 15,000 miles logged on it without a single issue. It has been to Kentucky, Boston, Long Island, on Fiero cruises, etc. I prefer to take that car over any of my other Fieros because I know it won't let me down. The pcm programming will not be an issue. Dave
Now you have my attention (not like you didn't have it before)! Not sure what the pricing will end up being, but I would imagine the VR6 swap you did prepped you very well for the TDI swap. My 2000 Jetta TDI is still going strong, but should it ever have an unfortunate incident that doesn't take out the engine, this is a swap I'd really be up for.
Are you going to be using the entire TDI system from the donor car?
I understand that you need the same serial numbered items such as the gauge pod, computer, passkey modules, etc... to make it run in another plaform like the Fiero. Or are you going to have it run independent of the german serial numbered items and run other gauges, etc, with the TDI computer? Or, are you going to be running a TDI-M injection pump?
Are you going to be using the entire TDI system from the donor car?
I understand that you need the same serial numbered items such as the gauge pod, computer, passkey modules, etc... to make it run in another plaform like the Fiero. Or are you going to have it run independent of the german serial numbered items and run other gauges, etc, with the TDI computer? Or, are you going to be running a TDI-M injection pump?
We will be running the Jetta's engine, trans, pcm, wiring, including the injection pump. Most likely, we will use the Jetta cluster. It is easy to defeat the immobilizer. The fan modules are high failure parts on the VW's, so like on my VR6 swap, we will have a different method to control the fan. I can program out the ABS system from the pcm and cluster. Bypassing the CAN line is simple. Once we get going on this build, I willl be posting up a lot of detail. We first plan to bring the maintenance up to date while the drivetrain is still in the Jetta. Dave
We are finishing up all the current projects at the Haus, so that we can start tearing into the TDI swap. Currently, we are still parting out the Jetta to fund the swap, so pass the word along if you know of someone who needs some Jetta parts. We have it listed on VW Vortex, TDI club, ebay, and The Samba. Other than that, we started prepping the Formula for the new drivetrain.....not sure if we are going to paint it before the swap or after. Lots to figure out. Dave
The maintenance begins to bring the TDI up to spec.
We start with the timing belt, all the rollers, tensioner, update the plastic impellar water pump to a metal one, and change the outside drive belt. At this time, we modify the power steering pump to become an idler pulley by removing the vanes from the impellar inside. This will allow the stock drive belt size to be used.
using the VW camshaft sprocket puller to be able to properly dial in the camshaft phasing. You can't just mark the pulley and hope for the best. German cars are very sensitive to proper phasing.
new belt installed. Note the pin installed in the injection pump. This sets the injection pump to a baseline timing and allows the car to be started and warmed up prior to adjusting the final pump timing with the laptop.
The brake vacuum pump and valve cover are removed to install the cam locking plate seen on the cylinder head.
new glow plugs are installed as well.
new fuel filter....this will be used in the Fiero.
setting the "start of injection" or pump timing. This is done with the laptop afetr the timing belt is done. This is a ALH engine and was set for it. (not sure why it was listed as a Lupo, but not concerned at this time because we will be doing this again once in the Fiero.)
servicing the transmission fluid and filter.
drivetrain ready to be pulled from the Jetta and installed into the Fiero. We wanted to ensure that the maintenance was brought up to date and have it running perfect prior to installing it into the Fiero. At that point, the oil and filter will be serviced.
The next step is to remove the drivetrain and pull the intake manifold. Every 50,000 miles, we pull the intake manifolds to clean the soot buildup. This allows for improved fuel mileage and performance. I'll post up pics when we do that. It will be an easier task in the Fiero for future servicing because the intake will be on the trunk side of the Fiero. It sits under the Jetta's windshield.
Dave
[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 12-04-2010).]
your not kidding about the soot. we did that cleaning on my dads beetle yuck. and come to think of it hes gonna need it again. Dave u got a pm as well.
I don't know how gun-ho you are about keep everything bone stock, but the addition of the dieselgeek race pipe/egr delete would greatly reduce the soot, but help clean up the engine bay.
------------------ '88 GT- 3800 Turbo 11.367@121.03mph gmtuners.com -Build info
Do the various versions of the TDI motors all mount the same way?
All the Beetles, Jettas and Golf IV mount the TDI the same way. Actually, the 2.0, 1.8t and VR6 all mount this same way as well. When I did the VR6 swap into the 86SE, I planned on using the VW mounting to the upper frame rail in the Fiero, but found it not very good and switched to conventional mounts instead. I plan on using either rubber or liquid filled mounts for this swap with custom brackets. I think poly mounts may vibrate too much in the Fiero. We plan on starting the prep work on the Formula on Christmas break.
quote
Originally posted by AkursedX:
I don't know how gun-ho you are about keep everything bone stock, but the addition of the dieselgeek race pipe/egr delete would greatly reduce the soot, but help clean up the engine bay.
We plan to open up the exhaust a bit. Our main concern is when we sell off this car (though Ryan is really concidering buying out my share at the end and keeping it for himself), that the car can be serviced by a VW guy. I want to keep it familiar to anyone who knows these engines. I plan on using a custom stainless steel downpipe mated to the stock Fiero exhaust system. We aren't sure if we plan to use the Jetta's instrument cluster yet, but we will defeat the immobilizer out of the pcm just in case if the cluster acts up in the future. This way the car won't have that security feature. We have been talking about offering TDI swaps at the Haus in the future....automatic and manual transmissions, but pricing may be an issue. I'm hoping to keep the price around the same as the 3800 swaps, but the average cost of a TDI drivetrain and needed parts is more expensive than buying a complete crashed Jetta. I really want to do a PD TDI in the future.....say what you want, but those are just sexy.....minus the whole camshaft issue. Dave
The only updates we have so far is that we are still parting out the Jetta to help fund this swap. The axles are not going to be cheap. Once we get a little more of the car parted, we should be starting on the fun part of the swap. I figure it will be a few months before we are really digging into this. Dave ps....keep in mind that since this swap is not a customer's, it is not first on the list. Still working on project Midtrbo and another 3800s/c (re)swap that was at Loyde's but never got done.
My 0.02$ - 1.9 VW is very popular in Poland, people swap it here and there, and I saw one or two pontiacs with this engine, on transaxle etc. similar to Fiero. But 1.9TDI doesnt work good in these previous 3800 Trans Sports
