Unique special project by GM 2.7-liter Super Duty four, 232-hp inline DOHC four-cylinder engine, five-speed manual transmission IMSA-style wide fiberglass body panels with a large whale-tail spoiler Special white paint with bright blue lower panels and red mid-body stripe
Chassis no. EX24P172
103.4-cid, 232-hp inline DOHC four-cylinder engine, five-speed manual transmission, four-wheel independent suspension and front disc, rear drum power hydraulic brakes. Wheelbase: 93.4-inches
Constructed by the manufacturer from a production Fiero 2M4, this car has IMSA-style wide fiberglass body panels, a large whale-tail spoiler and special white paint with bright blue lower panels and red mid-body stripe. The engine is a 2.7-liter Super Duty four with aluminum head and dual twin-port exhaust outlets. The transaxle is a five-speed unit. It is fitted with Goodyear Eagle GT tires, polished chrome Centerline wheels and a standard production interior. It is equipped with power windows, an AM/FM/cassette stereo, air conditioning and cruise control.
The objective of the project is not known. The car in this form was never taken up for production, although a Fiero GT model had some similar features. Thus, this car remains unique.
Addendum Please note this is being sold on Bill of Sale Only"
Back before we found the 1990 concept car and people were searching for it, I remember a group of people thinking they had found the 1990 after speaking with a museum. A group of people flew down to see the "1990" which in the end turned out to be this car when the cover was removed. I remember the disappointment from finding this car and not the real 1990. I don't recall any more info on it however if someone searched maybe there was more info in that thread but it goes back several years ago before the 20th!
That would be disappointing. I would love to add this car and the IMSA notch (1st IMSA) to a collection though. Along with one of the actual Indy pace cars and a duPont pace car, we'd have a nice collection there.
Back before we found the 1990 concept car and people were searching for it, I remember a group of people thinking they had found the 1990 after speaking with a museum. A group of people flew down to see the "1990" which in the end turned out to be this car when the cover was removed. I remember the disappointment from finding this car and not the real 1990. I don't recall any more info on it however if someone searched maybe there was more info in that thread but it goes back several years ago before the 20th!
you remember correctly sir... that was back in the days before we even knew the 1990 Prototype really did exist!... and yes... that car did cause a bunch of drama, but mostly because The Peterson Museum (someone there) gave the WCF club some information that was not accurate... or maybe they did give WCF the correct information and something was lost in translation... but I tend to think it was the Museum. Someone on their staff did not know what they really had, and WCF certainly would not try to misconstrue something so important.
And lastly, Eric seeking a response from the Museum directly on what they had and how it could go so wrong. The misinformation led Chester and Elvira and Boom and MsBeth to travel thousand of miles to see an '84... https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...020825-1-015908.html
The Fiero that you refer to in your letter dated March 11, 2002, is shown in the Museum records as being donated by Pontiac Motor Division of GM in 1989.
The Deed of Gift describes it as follows: 'Based on a production 1986 Fiero GT, specially constructed for use as a concept vehicle with the following equipment':
IMSA- style wide fiberglass body panels.
Large whale-tail spoiler integrated into rear deck.
White upper/brite blue lower exterior paint with thin red mid body strip.
Pontiac 2.7 liter Super Duty 4-cylinder engine with aluminum cylinder head.
Dual twin port exhaust outlets.
5-speed manual transaxle.
Goodyear Eagle VR tires.
Polished centerline wheels.
Standard production interior trim.
Approximately 6,900 miles on the odometer.
This information was supplied by GM at the time of donation, and we assumed it to be true. Our records do not reflect any information referencing a 89/90 prototype.
Access to the Museum's basement "vault" area is by special arrangement, and since this is a work area/vehicle storage area, and not an exhibit gallery, I make no apology for the condition of said area on the date that you and your group visited the Petersen Automotive Museum.
(signed by Pete Eastwood)
Good memory FieroMontreal! either way... it is a great looking car IMO, and I would love to have it. (and as a further blast from the past... here is your old sig pic!)
At least 10 vehicles the Petersen has placed up for auction starting Aug. 1 came from the Natural History Museum’s collection, according to a list provided by the county. It's unclear whether the cars were donated or lent to the Petersen when the automotive museum was established two decades ago.
My buddy in California picked this car up for the move along with a few others for the auction. He called me on it as I know the whole history on it but mum is the word for now. I have pictures as it was built . This car is not for the Faint of Heart as it will need money and work to get running again so if you are not up for spending plenty I would let it go to those who can take car of it. It also cannot be driven on the road so do not get any ideas of owning it for a street car. This really is a storage type vehicle that can be trailered only to any showings. Rick B
[This message has been edited by SuperchargedV6 (edited 07-30-2013).]
Originally posted by SuperchargedV6: My buddy in California picked this car up for the move along with a few others for the auction. He called me on it as I know the whole history on it but mum is the word for now. I have pictures as it was built .
Rick, can you at least enlighten us as to why it seems like this was a production car (RPO tags and all) but yet is presented as a concept? I was under the impression that GM never worked that way, or that at least they would not take a sample from the line to make a concept out of it?
[This message has been edited by benoitmalenfant (edited 07-30-2013).]
And lastly, Eric seeking a response from the Museum directly on what they had and how it could go so wrong. The misinformation led Chester and Elvira and Boom and MsBeth to travel thousand of miles to see an '84...
I was there too.....I drove in from Colorado and was pretty disappointed too. I did get to see some other cool cars in the museum (like a real 1955 Porsche 550 Spyder) and I went to my first NASCAR race in Vegas on the way home, so it wasn't a total bust for me.
Rick, can you at least enlighten us as to why it seems like this was a production car (RPO tags and all) but yet is presented as a concept? I was under the impression that GM never worked that way, or that at least they would not take a sample from the line to make a concept out of it?
It was from the same lot my car came from and was built at DGP's facility but it had changed a few times as they played with it. As to production cars it was a standard car when built in 1984 by Pontiac. Remember these guys didn't think anything of history in most of these build but just having fun trying new things out. More will come out but after the auction. Again the sad part as mentioned above there is a dolly to move it around showing it hasn't been taken care of. . This car is not in drivable condition nor can it be driven legally. It is a waste to buy for the average Joe so really it isn't worth allot at this point. My car on the other hand [which is streetable] was one of the few that DGP refused to build for GM unless he could own it in order to get it done without red tape from the big shots. Bob said they would hold them up so long that the cars were out dated by the time he got the OK. Rick B
[This message has been edited by SuperchargedV6 (edited 07-30-2013).]
It was from the same lot my car came from and was built at DGP's facility but it had changed a few times as they played with it. As to production cars it was a standard car when built in 1984 by Pontiac. Remember these guys didn't think anything of history in most of these build but just having fun trying new things out. More will come out but after the auction. Again the sad part as mentioned above there is a dolly to move it around showing it hasn't been taken care of. . This car is not in drivable condition nor can it be driven legally. It is a waste to buy for the average Joe so really it isn't worth allot at this point. My car on the other hand [which is streetable] was one of the few that DGP refused to build for GM unless he could own it in order to get it done without red tape from the big shots. Bob said they would hold them up so long that the cars were out dated by the time he got the OK. Rick B
I did check in to this car and Rick is correct it is not in drivable condition and can not be driven on the street, it has been sitting for a very long time and the condition is not good. It has bill of sale only and you may or may not be able to even get a title for it. I did not get confirmation that it has a VIN tag or not. What I learned was that unless you have a ton of money to restore it and just display it you might want to buy Ricks car if you want to drive a car like this one. Deep pockets and a extensive knowledge about this car will be required to get it back to decent condition even to display it, let alone drive it. There is not a lot of info about how it stored for the last 10-20 years and there are so many unknowns as to the condition of the engine and everything else on the car, I would have to agree with Rick that it would be a waste to buy for the average Joe and that it isn't worth allot at this point. Too bad it was not cared for better, in the condition it is in now it may be a lost cause.
Originally posted by Christine:...in the condition it is in now it may be a lost cause.
Oh, God I would hope not. Even if it's only ever displayed, it's worth saving. ...And parking next to Rick's... ,,,In my collection... ...Next to a few other interesting Fieros... :-)
This is a car you buy for love as it is not really worth much. The parts are worth more then the car to be honest as you could part it out for more than it is worth..
While they may call it a prototype it is not one with a strong documented history nor with what I would term one off parts.
Where as the PPG pace cars and even Ricks cars all have well documented histories that help it is this factor that adds to their worth.
I have known about this car for years and it was never saw anything special here as in historic but it is a good car with a lot of good things put on it.
I did not know a bunch of people went to LA thinking this was a 90? I never read that thread and shocked they did not know that this was not the real thing. I would not have been disappointed as the basement holds some really great cars and to me is as much or more fun as the upstairs.
I suspect this one will go for a cheap price unless two guys who want it bad enough fight it out. Unless it is street able you will have a car that has little well know history that you have to trailer. To be honest if unable to title this one would make a great parts car to change the parts over to a frame with a title and make it streetable again. You may be able to buy this for much less than if you hunted the parts down and tried to build it yourself.
It will be interesting to see how much this one will go for as only Fred's one pace car is the only Fiero prototype that ever went for big money and it had more to do that it was one of the 3 original pace cars than anything else and two guys who really wanted. The other prototypes to me were all bargains when GM sold them off.
its says comes with a bill of sale doent mean it comes with the stopping of registering it because it has a vin and came from the production line.
You clearly do not know anything about these cars. There is a sticker on the window clearly stating it is illegal to drive on the roads. Also a Bill of sales has noted with DMV as a no title car so you cannot get a title for it. Next it has an illegal motor for the road but I guess you can get around it by having collectors or historical plate but again you cannot get a title for this car and if you some how fenegale one you are committing a crime.
I know many now a days feel they are above the law and they can do as they feel since rules are meant to be broken but this is honestly not right nor a safe way to go through life as you will inevitable get into trouble and rightfully so. Do not buy this car if you think you can make it a legal street car as you cannot. Rick B
I don't know the history of the car but unless as previosuly stated on the car. I am reading this from a person looking at buying the car. When a mesuem sells something at bill of sale and not with a complete disclosure that you cannot register it on the roads that is fraudulant information. This information has to be disclosed. In this case it has not. So since it has a vin and a bill of sale you can register it. Granted I cannot drive it in california but probably in nevada.
I don't know the history of the car but unless as previosuly stated on the car. I am reading this from a person looking at buying the car. When a mesuem sells something at bill of sale and not with a complete disclosure that you cannot register it on the roads that is fraudulant information. This information has to be disclosed. In this case it has not. So since it has a vin and a bill of sale you can register it. Granted I cannot drive it in california but probably in nevada.
Well, I don't mean to rain on your parade, but reading this L.A Times article about the Museum makes me believe this sale might not be all kosher...
The Atty Gen. is investigating the car sales of the museum because there are reasons to believe the museum is selling cars that were lent to the museum and not donated...
So, I wouldn't be surprised the museum is not disclosing all information on purpose...
------------------ Ben 87 GT / 88 GT 84 Indy #1863
[This message has been edited by benoitmalenfant (edited 07-31-2013).]
I was there too.....I drove in from Colorado and was pretty disappointed too. I did get to see some other cool cars in the museum (like a real 1955 Porsche 550 Spyder) and I went to my first NASCAR race in Vegas on the way home, so it wasn't a total bust for me.
sorry to not include you!... i love a case of 'Good Ole Days' syndrome... only thing that makes it better is a beer and cigar...
So since it has a vin and a bill of sale you can register it.
I am not sure what GM did to limit their liability, but just because there is a Bill of Sale and a vin # on the chassis doesn't mean it can be registered. For example, if the title has been "junked", then even with a vin plate and a bill of sale you can't get it registered (unless you go through the "rebuilding process").
I know the laws vary from state to state on what can be titled and what can't. Back in the day unscrupulous people would even re-title cars in specific states to "wash" salvage titles.
I'm with Rick here though, since this was never intended to be a street car I wouldn't go through the trouble to force it. If there is any way to be able to run it occasionally in parades or to/from car shows, that would be more than enough. Sounds like even that would be a major undertaking right now.
That said; I'm horrified that anyone would consider scrapping or parting this out.
The part some do not realize is GM can take this and a few other cars back at anytime by what is written on the tag in the window. It is kind of like owning a stolen vehicle sicne being donated for use only with those given too. They will take it and you will be out money. This is a fact as I have spoken to some involved in the past and this is what can happen., Rick B
The part some do not realize is GM can take this and a few other cars back at anytime by what is written on the tag in the window. It is kind of like owning a stolen vehicle sicne being donated for use only with those given too. They will take it and you will be out money. This is a fact as I have spoken to some involved in the past and this is what can happen., Rick B
Wow, I had never heard of that. Does anyone have a pic of those tags?
The part some do not realize is GM can take this and a few other cars back at anytime by what is written on the tag in the window. It is kind of like owning a stolen vehicle sicne being donated for use only with those given too. They will take it and you will be out money. This is a fact as I have spoken to some involved in the past and this is what can happen., Rick B
I have personally been involved with this. When GM went bankrupt they came to our museum and took several cars that had been gifted to us. While our attorneys said that we had legal grounds to fight them we did not have the money to do so. We ended up making a deal with them. They took some and signed over the rest. They claimed that until they signed off the cars could always be reclaimed. The legal papers given to us said that we owned the car but that GM had right to it forever. Since this car was gifted to a museum in the same manner I would guess the paperwork reads the same.
One of the cars we got to keep was one of the EV1s. That paperwork clearly states that it never to be driven - ever - by anyone - for any reason. A college, who also was gifted one, had a legal fight over the fact the several students modified the car and privately drove it around campus. They ended up winning only because the paperwork did allow for the students to use it as part of their studies otherwise the court said they would never be able to drive it.
This car is of interest but there are just to many questions and strings attached to it.
For one many of the cars that can not be titled have had the Vin removed or never had one. Because of this there is no way to title it or register it.
Some of GM's cars do have vin# and can be titled and driven. If you look at the auctions many cars were drivable but most of them were mostly based on production cars. If the car has non production parts like an engine or wheels GM does nto want the liability and they will no issue or remove the vin.
As for the tag on the car it also depends. Many cars like this can be taken by GM or in some cases if they have been out of their hands and you have the money and a good lawyer you can retain them. GM has lost many cases like this on some valuable cars over the years. The Cerv I and Cerv II were both given to the Collier museum years ago to prevent them from being destroyed. GM stated they were on loan but left them there for something like 40 years. The Museum needed money and put them up for auction. They ended up in court and won. They sold them both for 7 figures each if I recall.
The bottom line here is there are no absolutes on if GM can get these back or not as it depends on the paperwork, time in the others hands etc.
Now as for titles generally you have to have to have a vin and GM also I would say have the paperwork set so it can not be used. Now if you took a good frame and moved all the parts over there is no reason to stop you unless they have some disclosure that you can not remove parts in the paperwork or agreement.
This is tricky stuff here and if you buy a car like this and want to drive it you had better do your home work before you buy. In other words read the fine print and get a lawyer to read the disclaimers and paperwork before you buy.
As for this car there is just limited appeal and value here. It has some cool parts but you could build a car like this today if you like. It is not what I would call a one off car. Also there is not great history to this car. It is more know for sitting in the basement of the Peterson than anything else. If you could dig up a solid history that would give the car the distinction of being really special it could drive the price up some but no cool history it is not worth much more than many of the wide bodies on this web site that many of you have built.
[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 07-31-2013).]
If a guy could get it at a "decent" price, he could have everything swapped over to a clean chassis in a few days. As for "expense" to get the motor running - it's a motor - wear parts are available - a set of bearings, rings and gaskets and it's done! Then again, based on "legalities", I question if Petersons actually has the right to sell the car - whether it's related to the 10 or so "gifted" cars by the Natural History Museum or GM's right to reclaim it? Could be a huge can of worms!
I was under the impression that "old GM" no longer exists since the bankruptcy/restructuring... so their ("new GM") claim over cars not already retrieved or under a current contract would be a bit questionable? At the very least, you'd need more info about the terms of how it came into the museum's possession in the first place. Whole thing seems iffy to start with.
Anyway, the details on this car are sketchy as hell and the museum itself isn't being totally honest in their ad ('84 VIN, sure doesn't look like a DOHC SD, etc). If it's been sitting for 20+ years, it's likely not good for much other than being cleaned up and occasionally shown. All the rubber will be shot, engine would need a refresh, new suspension parts, brakes likely frozen, etc...
I was under the impression that "old GM" no longer exists since the bankruptcy/restructuring... so their ("new GM") claim over cars not already retrieved or under a current contract would be a bit questionable? At the very least, you'd need more info about the terms of how it came into the museum's possession in the first place. Whole thing seems iffy to start with.
Anyway, the details on this car are sketchy as hell and the museum itself isn't being totally honest in their ad ('84 VIN, sure doesn't look like a DOHC SD, etc). If it's been sitting for 20+ years, it's likely not good for much other than being cleaned up and occasionally shown. All the rubber will be shot, engine would need a refresh, new suspension parts, brakes likely frozen, etc...
Well it depends on if you have the time, money and lawyers or luck as to GM etc.
The car could easily be brought back life after sitting in a climate control environment for that long. Generally little damage happens there. Clean the fuel system out and prime the oil and I am sure it would be fine. Tires may have some flat spots. Might have a few bugs but noting that could not be easily fixed.
I agree with the above if the vin is an issue just use a clean frame and swap the parts over quietly. But I would not invest a lot unless you could buy it cheap as the cars value is limited. Like I said and not that I would but the car in parts is worth more than whole. Just look at what you could get for a clean set of centerline wheels alone.
Notchy and fasty IMSA 
that would be nice
