Hey guys. I recently picked up a 87 GT and am planning to swap my 11.8 second @115 1/4 mile motor from my Regal into my fiero. I've been in the 3800 scene since late 07. I've done just about every mod that can be done to a 3800. It was always my goal to get into the 11's in my regal then swap the motor into a fiero so I can hit low 11's then 10's with No2. I'm going to need some help doing this swap, wiring guides, motor mounts, axles, headers, exhaust, clearance with the rear hood, ect. I'll use this thread as my build thread and add to it over the years. Here are a couple pictures of my regal in action and a few of the fiero. Thanks for reading!
Heres the Regal in her demod state and in its prime Head gasket pushed out at 90mph on my 11.8 pass The 11 second 1/4 mile run http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQT4X2eBlR8 Traction issues as usual with nearly 400whp in a FWD wbody on street tires. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skw_GW_rxZg ------------------ 11.8@115mph 1/4 mile 1999 Regal GSX being demodded for swap into a 86+ Fiero GT.
[This message has been edited by djlamp14 (edited 10-27-2013).]
Nope those engines don't fit in the Fiero. Ok maybe they can and they really are not that hard a job to do. If you need any wiring help I am always willing to answer questions but it is easier to just email me dansflyer@live.ca I would suggest wiring it all as a GTP instead of the regal and have the PCM programmed for the GTP with all the mods you have
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DARN Cars now open with Over 30 years wiring experience between cars and trade as an avionics technician in both Canadian Air Force and civilian aviation. Over 25 years experience building and modifying cars. Over 10 years of full Fiero engine swaps and harnesses building and still going.
Do you have a complete mod list of the Regal besides what you listed in the topic? Looking forward to the build.
L36 block, milled L32 heads, 5 angle valve job, smoothing ports, ported LIM, ZZP Stage 2 IC, ported and polished GenV, 2.6 pulley (14psi-15psi) 77mm N* TB, LQ4 MAF, ZZP AFC tuned at 110% headroom, 4" intake, E85, 65lb injectors, ZZP 1st gen fuel rails, headers, 3" mandrel dual exhaust with 3" electric cutout, 23* of WOT timing. Built Tim King Race trans. 3.29's, blue pack clutches, ZZP 300m input, zzp pump shaft, zzp 2500 stall, TEP valve body, Tim's custom shift kit, Transgo kit, Modded diff (no not an Intense).
Regal also had full suspension. KYB AGX adjustables with vogtland springs, GMPP front/rear sway bars, GMPP trailing arms, front/rear STB's, poly mounts all around. Regal was made into a GSX clone by me. Its a flagship car on regalgs.org and well known
I currently hold the #6 fastest regal record in the nation and #2 in MN. #1 if we dont count the other guy since he was turbo'ed and ran .1 seconds faster lol. All this is about wbody gen regals (97-04)
[This message has been edited by djlamp14 (edited 10-27-2013).]
Low 11s with the Regal setup will be easy in the Fiero. The swap is straight forward for someone with ur mechanical abilitiy. Any question can be answered thru search or by asking as it has all been covered. Look forward to following your thread...
Nope those engines don't fit in the Fiero. Ok maybe they can and they really are not that hard a job to do. If you need any wiring help I am always willing to answer questions but it is easier to just email me dansflyer@live.ca I would suggest wiring it all as a GTP instead of the regal and have the PCM programmed for the GTP with all the mods you have
All my security is turned off in my PCM already. I own a tuner. I don't even need a key to start the buick anymore. But I choose to use one
L36 block, milled L32 heads, 5 angle valve job, smoothing ports, ported LIM, ZZP Stage 2 IC, ported and polished GenV, 2.6 pulley (14psi-15psi) 77mm N* TB, LQ4 MAF, ZZP AFC tuned at 110% headroom, 4" intake, E85, 65lb injectors, ZZP 1st gen fuel rails, headers, 3" mandrel dual exhaust with 3" electric cutout, 23* of WOT timing. Built Tim King Race trans. 3.29's, blue pack clutches, ZZP 300m input, zzp pump shaft, zzp 2500 stall, TEP valve body, Tim's custom shift kit, Transgo kit, Modded diff (no not an Intense).
Regal also had full suspension. KYB AGX adjustables with vogtland springs, GMPP front/rear sway bars, GMPP trailing arms, front/rear STB's, poly mounts all around. Regal was made into a GSX clone by me. Its a flagship car on regalgs.org and well known
I currently hold the #6 fastest regal record in the nation and #2 in MN. #1 if we dont count the other guy since he was turbo'ed and ran .1 seconds faster lol. All this is about wbody gen regals (97-04)
Very close build to mine except e85 and 2.6" pulley.
Wow. Very nice setup, good luck with the swap. I guess you are going to sell off all the performance suspension parts that won't fit on a Fiero? Except for being in a lighter car and having better traction, I would kept that regal as is, that is awesome!
You supercharged an L36? Every Thread I've looked at on these forums, everyone says that the internals won't hold up and to just buy an L67. I see you changed out the heads. Did you do anything with the pistons/rods? How are they holding up?
I'm asking because I can get an L36 for dirt cheap and want to push it's limits, but it seems everyone is saying that they won't last...
You supercharged an L36? Every Thread I've looked at on these forums, everyone says that the internals won't hold up and to just buy an L67. I see you changed out the heads. Did you do anything with the pistons/rods? How are they holding up?
I'm asking because I can get an L36 for dirt cheap and want to push it's limits, but it seems everyone is saying that they won't last...
L36 will last fine. Who ever told you that is retarded. Mine is all stock internals. 160k miles and runs 11s
[This message has been edited by djlamp14 (edited 10-28-2013).]
so does anyone know what are the best (solid prefered) motor mounts for the swap? Trans mounts may be needed too. I have a 4t65e hd trans.
Do I need two custom axles or just one? I have HD axles
Alternator mount. Guessing I'll need to relocate it
I'll have to delete my power steering pump. What do you guys put in its place.
Can I use my wbody headers? I know the motor is flipped around and **** but I'm not sure if they will still work. Rather use mine over paying 700 some bucks for another set. Unless I have to.
It would be epic if one of you guys that have done a swap like mine throw me together a list of everything that would be needed.
If you're able and you have a welder the best thing to do is make your own mounts. I personally wouldn't solid mount it. 4-5 polyurethane mounts will hold everything down very secure and not shake the car to death.
If you don't plan on having AC I would put the alternator where the AC compressor goes. Remove the PS pump. You'll just have Crank-Tensioner-Water pump-Alternator for the accessory pulleys
You can use the headers. It will be tricky trying to keep it quiet.
There is a lot of different ways people do these swaps so there really isn't a concrete formula to go by.
Best thing to do is use the search option and do a lot of reading.
I would really prefer bolt in mounts. Are those not available?
fieroX makes the mounts you need. One of my best friends. Top quality mounts. As far as axles go, MstangsBware makes them for the passenger side. The driver side is a stock Automatic v6 GM axle which are going to be stronger than any store bought axle. As far as the mounts, you will want to use a Dog bone assembly and also use some sort of tensioner and alternator bracket. Headers, I was able to fit TOG headers in just fine with slight denting of the trunk, but was able to retain it. There is also a place to order a stock intake setup that goes into the fender that comes off a Truck if I recall.
Any questions, keep on asking us, we will be able to help.
I am aware of them. If FieroX makes better stuff for the money I'll go through him.
WCF/FieroX mounts r the same with FieroXs mounts being a little thicker. Either setup will work as I have used both several times in swaps. With either set u can use a stock auto axle for the DRV side and a built axle for the Pass side.
What mounts will be needed. My motor makes a decent amount of power. I'm going to need upper and lower motor mounts I'm sure. I say this because I read that 3800 swaps just need the lower mounts and that's it.
What mounts will be needed. My motor makes a decent amount of power. I'm going to need upper and lower motor mounts I'm sure. I say this because I read that 3800 swaps just need the lower mounts and that's it.
If buying pre made mounts either WCF or FieroX mounts will work. Add an upper dog bone setup to the swap and u will be fine and have no issues with motor movement. If u wanna go a step farther then add a 4rth mount on the backside behind the AC compressor. All mounts are poly mounts and hold the setuo in place very well.
I used the WCF mounts, I wanted FieroX but I had a hard time getting a hold of him or even finding him, and when I felt like I was getting close it sounded like he was getting out of the Mount business.
I had heard mixed reviews of WCF, sometimes they don't answer the phone and I got a lil nervous when the mounts where a few days late, but overall they are selling a good product.
I used a solid but adjustable dog bone to preload the motor, everything is good & tight
L36 will last fine. Who ever told you that is retarded. Mine is all stock internals. 160k miles and runs 11s
I am surprised at least one forum 3800 expert hasn't argued with you about this statement yet. Next you are gonna tell us that rebuilding a 3800 is perfectly fine.
<----------- Also running a L36, heads never been off. Valvetrain and rod bolts have been changed out, that's it.
I wouldn't recommend what I'm doing to anyone, but for a M90 build, or turbo under 400rwhp, I wouldn't hesitate for a minute running a L36. I wouldn't touch a l26 for boost, even if it was free.
Here is a little update to the Fiero, I have not really settled on a good name yet. For the collector plates I'm thinking whiney6 but that will suck when I go turbo with it later on. I know I'll have this car for a very long time so I'm sure I'll pour a **** ton of money into it. It's strictly track and a toy to go to shows in. Not many creature comforts. Goal is running 11 flat with the swap and high 10's with further mods. The car now has a rod knock (2.8motor) that I'm guessing came from pitching the car sideways around every corner. Why not I don't care about the power or drivetrain. Hope it can make it 5 miles back to my shed once its nice enough to come out from storage. I've got a 6 point roll cage going in it soon. Got to arrange a date to go pick that up. Also still dragging my feet on the motor mounts/axles. I've got the engine harness done except for mating to the c500 and other parts of the fiero. Mounted the driver side race seat. Suede Corbeau FX1-Pro. Its a epic seat with the 5 point harness I will have no issues during tech. I did a couple things for looks on the fiero. I converted all but the PON TIAC text to LED's. Not a cheap thing to do plug and play but it looks pretty sweet in action.
I'm kind of a picture whore and if your like a lot of people they would rather look at pictures than read. So here is a few.
Current state more or less 20% tint tinted 1/4 windows
Back when I was pulling all the goodies out of it before I sold it.
Headgasket from the 11 second pass
ARP headstuds and Victor Rienz headgaskets
Going to carbon fiber hydro dip my filled valve covers
LED swap
Engine harness project.
Found a home for a couple of my gauges. Gonna mount more to the right side of the cluster. Directly to the right of the trunk latch button
S3 Aluminum oil pan, Getting powercoated black or something different like light blue. I need some character for it. 3core raditator for the swap in the background. My motor table seems to always be a shelf for car parts.
Seat mounted temporaily on stock brackets for now. I will purchase two from the fiero store. This shows about how much room I'll have with the 6 point cage. With my helmet on I have very little wiggle room. Hope those aftermarket seat brackets are low
Had the vents powerdercoated black. Once I tear apart the fiero I'll be powdercoating lots of things.
Little pile of junk ready to go on the motor
Little project I'm working on. Farm truck and azn gave me the idea.
Now we just gotta make it look like this again but in a fiero! ------------------ 11.8@115mph 1/4 mile 1999 Regal GSX being demodded for swap into a 87 Fiero GT. 11 sec pass>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQT4X2eBlR8
[This message has been edited by djlamp14 (edited 02-24-2014).]
I swear I've seen that on youtube a few times, I was totally going to steal that chromed blower idea. But alas I had turbo dreams... Looks sick! Curious how you like E85, and do you have a high stall TC? If so from who, and does it retain the lockup clutch?
87 Fiero ST3 Cam, Turbo, Water cooled IC, Stall, Double Roller, and More....
[This message has been edited by IanT720 (edited 02-24-2014).]
Yea my regal was pretty well known and was all over the internet. I'm sure you saw one of my youtube videos at the track or of it running. My stall is a ZZP 2500. It stalls around 2700rpms. In the future I plan to get a better unit. IIRC these are under $500. You'd have to check. I only paid $200 for it with <1k miles.
E85 is the **** . Its the next best thing to race gas without paying $7+/gal. I can run almost max timing and ~15psi from my GenV blower. That's on a 2.6" pulley. The fuel is very forgiving and has great cooling properties. This year I'm going to go No2 also once the car gets set up. 10's will be no problem with the giggle gas I'm thinking
For what its worth, i bought the WCF mounts. They were a true bolt on, and 30 min after i got them in the mail, they were on the car. I was going to make my own, but they were just too easy.
Do you remember your total? Was it $400 plus shipping? His mounts look different from FieroX. Here is a list of the mounts that I think that I need. besides the low alt bracket. This is my cart from west coast for a late model 4t65ehd and 3800 swap
One front engine to frame mount $65 2 tranny swap frame mounts $65x2 The weird looking front engine mount $55 Dowel pin style late trans mount $85 Left 4t65e tranny mount $65
He said he can ship out in 4 days. That better mean they are ready to go out the door and not give me 3 weeks to build them and then you'll get them in 4 days.
I would recommend bracing the rear trans mount when you get it. I had to bend the flange the frame mount bolts to back down, and weld in a brace after mine bent. Once you see it, it should make sense, I don't have a picture handy.
Took it out for a drive yesterday and today. That 2.8 starts knockin after about 3k rpms. As long as you stay under that it seems to run just fine. A few more weeks with temps over 30 degrees, all the snow should be gone and I can start ripping this car apart. Got lots of parts on order and a list to order yet, that is ever growing. I missed always needing more parts. The buick already had everything I wanted for it.
I snapped a few pictures since it looked fairly clean. It needs a buff badly. In the last picture you can see just how much taller the Corbeau seat is than stock. With the cage this car is going to be a pain in the ass to get in and out of. I may look into getting a quick disconnect steering wheel for more room getting in and out if I can find something tasteful.
------------------ 11.8@115mph 1/4 mile 1999 Regal GSX being demodded for swap into a 87 Fiero GT. 11 sec pass>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQT4X2eBlR8
[This message has been edited by djlamp14 (edited 03-17-2014).]
