I've asked this before, and I figured if I waited long enough, I could ask again. I'm trying to find someone out there in the Fiero world that has a set of Lexan flushmount covers for Kris' headlight setup. Someone that might be upgrading to doublec4's headlight kit or going back to the popups, etc.

Also, does anyone know who has Kris' tooling for the headlight kit or any old molds, parts, etc? Did anyone get a chance to get those from him since then? He made some fantastic kits, etc and I feel like the only way to get a new set is to have someone make the molds here in my town from my kit, but there has to be something out there.


Let me know guys.

Thanks,
Amir

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Best 1/4: 11.7 @ 115mph
Best 60ft: 1.60

[This message has been edited by Rare87GT (edited 03-02-2014).]

From my understanding nothing was passed on at all?

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1984 Indy Pace Car\1988 Formula Custom\1986 turbo GT
Founder of Mason Dixon Fiero Owners Group
NYFOC Member

If I remember, I thought all of the fiberglass molds went to Jimmy of FieroFiberglass. I don't know if he acquired the lenses though.

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 03-02-2014).]

I have a set of his flushmounts and from my past experiences with vacuum forming, you could easily make a set of lenses if you have a plastics company that does vacu-forming.

Use your original headlight doors to make your molds then vacu-form a sheet of acrylic over the mold. You would need to work out the trim, but a quarter inch around is sufficient to keep them from coming out the top. They are captured by the pan that inserts into the two slots in the front of the headlight opening, and the two bolts that originally mounted the headlight doors.

Just to give you a little heads up on this.... I had doubec4 try to make a set of these for me and this was the last response I received from him:

Hi Tim,

I tried to make some lenses for you but they did not turn out. There are a few problems.

First, I don't think my vacuum forming table is large enough. I can't get enough of a "lip" around the lens so that you would be able to mount them like Kris's original lens. I designed my table to accommodate a lens just large enough for how my mounting design works.

Second, the original headlight doors do not work well as molds. When heated, it seems like they release some sort of gas or something and it makes bubbles in the lens leaving noticeable imperfections.

Third, the headlight doors are too large to be used as molds. The end product just won't fit inside the hood opening.

I gave it a shot but without Kris's original molds its pretty tough to do. I would have to invest a lot of money to reproduce these lenses properly.


Not sure if your plan was to use the original doors as molds, but just thought I would give you doubec4's experience. You may want to talk to him. Seems like a super nice guy to me.

Good luck,
Tim

Thanks for the kind words Tim.

I had a similar discussion with Amir in private messages about the tooling.

I know how to create these lenses but its just a matter of time and money and unfortunately I don't feel like the returns will be there even if I were to get it right. When I tried making a set for Tim I used the headlight door as a mold because it was the best option for keeping costs down. I ended up with a general shape, but I also ended up with horrible bubbles in the lens. I tried the procedure a few times but each time there were disappointing results. Plus, the shape itself is too large because the plastic must form around the headlight door. Obviously the thickness of the plastic adds to the overall size and you get a lens that won't fit in the hood opening. It would require modifying the headlight door to work as a mold.

I'm confident that it can be done if someone wishes to invest some money and time into the molds or if they can find Kris's original ones.

What would the molds/plugs be made from?
I have a friend who does own a plastics forming company who fabricates all the parts for Taylor Freezer ice cream machines and does aviation parts for the government. He has the resources in other words. I know I could probably work something out with him on getting something going. My interests are actually for fabricating the tail light lens covers and am a novice in this field.

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Project Genisis Lo Budget 3800SC swap

88 Coupe under construction

Amir,

Remember to get your old buddy Revin a set as well ( for spares)

The guy that made all of Kris' molded parts is here in Rockledge, Florida (60 miles south of Daytona). I think he also made some parts (sail panel windows with the scoops and little window) for the Fiero store. You might ask Dragon (Frank Martin) to check on it for you - I think he knows the man. He may still be able to make the clear lenses. I think the man's name is Jimmy

The molds/plugs can be made from a number of things depending on how many pulls you want to get from them + quality.

If you thought you could make thousands of dollars from these lenses I would suggest getting a beautiful mold machined from aluminum. Since this probably isn't the case you have other options.

You can use a set of original lenses (might risk damaging them though) and cast out molds from various materials (epoxy's etc).

To make my molds, I designed them in a CAD environment. Then I machined the negative pattern into a big block of wood and then cast a positive pattern out of tooling concrete. Then I used bondo to seal the surface and sanded and sanded and touched it up and sanded and sanded (you get the idea) until the surface was flawless. Then repeat for the other side.

Or, another option is something called tooling board (Ren-board) and it is less expensive than a big chunk of metal but it can also be machined. You can create your model in CAD and have a machine shop cut the pattern out of the tooling board.

Lastly, you can always try to modify the headlight doors but keep in mind you will somehow have to shrink the door if you're going to use it as a mold. Otherwise you may end up with an over sized lens for the size of the hood opening.

So one would be better off to start with a splash mold of the original doors and recreate them to modify for the lenses. It sounds like one would have to trim them down around the perimeter to make up for the thickness of the plastic on the new masters.

Fiero Fiberglass has the molds for the inner fiberglass ledge. Other than that, we don't have molds or info for any od the other parts.

quote Originally posted by Rare87GT: I've asked this before, and I figured if I waited long enough, I could ask again. I'm trying to find someone out there in the Fiero world that has a set of Lexan flushmount covers for Kris' headlight setup. Someone that might be upgrading to doublec4's headlight kit or going back to the popups, etc. Also, does anyone know who has Kris' tooling for the headlight kit or any old molds, parts, etc? Did anyone get a chance to get those from him since then? He made some fantastic kits, etc and I feel like the only way to get a new set is to have someone make the molds here in my town from my kit, but there has to be something out there. Let me know guys. Thanks, Amir

Guys, I'm an industrial designer by trade and I can build anything in CAD. I've always like the flush design on Amir's car but not sure I have the time to replicate it. If I can get some good pics of the kit I can at least start kicking the idea around. John

I would be very interested and almost pay some money to get them started. I'm sure a few members would send money to get insure they would purchase assuming it was something that was to be invested to make correct. Let me know what you are thinking...I've thought the same thing about a few friends of mine local that are engineer's, but sometimes talking about it with them and getting them to do it is two totally different things.


-Amir

Amir, send me a few up close pics both under the hood and from the outside. This will at least give me an idea of the complexity. I will have more time this summer to evaluate and decide.

If you're going to produce flushmounts in the Kris Munson style, please don't duplicate them. Improve them. Doublec4 has address a lot of problems found with the Munson style flushmounts.

This is in no way meant to be disrespectful of Kris. These are problems I have encountered with the set I have on one of my cars. I don't know if they are early versions, nor do I know if others have encountered any problems with their versions.

The high and low beams aren't independently adjustable. The lenses are clamped in, and unless the mount is precise, the high and low beams point in vastly different directions. I've adjusted my set so that my low beams give as much illumination of the roadway as possible. At that position, one high beam strikes the roof of my house from a distance of 50 feet, while the other beam is at about 8 feet up at the top of the garage door.

The lenses are set back too far into the headlight well and too low. There is no side lighting of the center line or fog line along the edge of the roadway due to the side wall of the bucket.

There is no illumination of the roadway for 30-50 feet, immediately ahead of the vehicle. Lack of side and bottom lighting makes it extremely dangerous when driving in rainy weather at night. Fog lights are desperately needed as supplemental lighting.

The lights need to be moved forward at a minimum. Raising them would be even more beneficial. If my car were a daily driver, and the PO hadn't butchered the factory wiring harness I would have ripped them out long ago and gone back to the stock lights.

quote Originally posted by fierofool: If you're going to produce flushmounts in the Kris Munson style, please don't duplicate them. Improve them. Doublec4 has address a lot of problems found with the Munson style flushmounts. This is in no way meant to be disrespectful of Kris. These are problems I have encountered with the set I have on one of my cars. I don't know if they are early versions, nor do I know if others have encountered any problems with their versions. The high and low beams aren't independently adjustable. The lenses are clamped in, and unless the mount is precise, the high and low beams point in vastly different directions. I've adjusted my set so that my low beams give as much illumination of the roadway as possible. At that position, one high beam strikes the roof of my house from a distance of 50 feet, while the other beam is at about 8 feet up at the top of the garage door. The lenses are set back too far into the headlight well and too low. There is no side lighting of the center line or fog line along the edge of the roadway due to the side wall of the bucket. There is no illumination of the roadway for 30-50 feet, immediately ahead of the vehicle. Lack of side and bottom lighting makes it extremely dangerous when driving in rainy weather at night. Fog lights are desperately needed as supplemental lighting. The lights need to be moved forward at a minimum. Raising them would be even more beneficial. If my car were a daily driver, and the PO hadn't butchered the factory wiring harness I would have ripped them out long ago and gone back to the stock lights.

I understand your concern and believe me the Munson flushmounts are not the greatest with the stock halogen light bulbs. I upgraded to HID's and it's night and day difference. My lights work very well and the output is very decent. It's not better than flip ups, but it's very close I think. Upgrading to HID's is the single greatest thing you can do...and yeah people will give me flack because it's not a true projector to run HID's but they are very good and the output is superior over what you have with a stock H3 halogen bulb. I'm not sure what other people have done HID's on Munson's headlight but that was my complaint and I think I fixed it in a sense where it works very well. That would be my suggestion and it's really cheap under $65 shipped for the HID slim kit to use. If you ever want to sell your setup, I'd be glad to take it off your hands.

Take care,
Amir

Rare87, I don't really have a problem with the lumen output. The problem is that so much of the light output is blocked by the bucket, and the inability to aim the high and low beams, independently of each other. I just can't get the light onto the roadway where it's needed. I love the looks, I just wish I could make them really useful. And safe.

I'm busy with some home remodeling projects, but if I get a chance, I'll pull the lens and bucket and take some pics for you. It might be a week or so. If anyone provides them before me, please let me know.

Munson lights are basically 3 piece... The clear lenses, Fiberglass buckets and metal light housings. Fiero Fiberglass has the rights to the Fiberglass buckets and has the molds. We are willing to work with and supply the buckets to someone who wants to reproduce a kit. However, someone pulling their own mold off a set of buckets and re-producing them for sale, will not be tolerated. The lenses and metal housings are not within our control so they are basically free game.

Fiero Fiberglass still sells Munson parts and we give the proceeds (Kris's cut) to his wife. I would ask that if someone does re-produce this kit that they donate a portion of sales to Kris's wife.

In that event, I'll only provide details of the lenses.

quote Originally posted by JimmyS: Munson lights are basically 3 piece... The clear lenses, Fiberglass buckets and metal light housings. Fiero Fiberglass has the rights to the Fiberglass buckets and has the molds. We are willing to work with and supply the buckets to someone who wants to reproduce a kit. However, someone pulling their own mold off a set of buckets and re-producing them for sale, will not be tolerated. The lenses and metal housings are not within our control so they are basically free game. Fiero Fiberglass still sells Munson parts and we give the proceeds (Kris's cut) to his wife. I would ask that if someone does re-produce this kit that they donate a portion of sales to Kris's wife.

I more than understand the issue on the molds and maybe I need to rephrase this. I'm not here to steal anyone's idea or try to make a profit. I just know the headlight bucket itself is not listed anywhere so I had thought the idea was dead. If the bucket is still available and for sale I most certainly want to pay the person that has the mold or product available. I'm a stand up guy not trying to make anyone think they are getting taking advantaged of. I messaged Jimmy about the headlights and am actively just trying to find a set for my girlfriend's car and I would love to have an extra set for my car with the clear lenses down the road. I don't even have Munson's bucket's I have Tom's old kit (cadaver) like revin on here with the clear covers that Munson made after the fact. I would give the cut to his wife if these were made and sold to the community. I still think there is a lot of interest in these kits and that's why I was asking. Honestly if someone said they had a kit for sale with an extra set of lenses to go along with the complete kit, I would buy them and be done, but still seems like it sparks more than me as interest, but maybe I'm wrong. Lots of people complain about the lighting, but there is always some sort of a solution to make them lots better. Again I'm not here to make a dime, just want the ability to purchase them when there is no other flushmount kit available besides doublec4's kit and like I told him which I'm sure he understands, they just don't fit the look I'm trying to go on my car and that is not a knock at all because his design is very retro and looks great as his the tailight design he came up with that I'm purchasing here soon.

Just wanted to clear up that as far as any negative was going on what I'm trying to do. I do have some design friends that could make the molds like anyone, but it would be for me and my cars and my girlfriend. That's about it which I'm entitled to, but I will pick them up from Jimmy as I respect him/want to get them from him and it's nice to know he has the molds. He gave me a price and if he is ready to make them for me, I would get them. I would like to know if it's just the bucket and metal piece or just the bucket so I know what metal bracketry I would have to make to make this kit work.

[This message has been edited by Rare87GT (edited 03-05-2014).]

Opps! I finally figured out you are talking about Munson light covers. DUH

I have the "Toms" headlights and wonder if the cover would be the same?????

So on mine, it appears that the clear plexi was just formed over a headlight door.
It sits flush.
It has two "tabs" in the front that slide into the holes in the front part of the opening. ( could easily have been cut out)
The back part has a flat lip for the two bolts to attach in the org. mounting holes for the door.

I will look wayyyy back in my pics and see if I have a shot of them.

EDIT: I sent a email and PM to "Cadver", Tom to see if he is still around. Looks like Haze was going to make the lights as well. may check with him

I would think they would work on the Munsons. Maybe we could locate something on that build up??

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88 GT, 3800SC, Getrag 5sp. 12" Vette Rotors,Custom stuff done

[This message has been edited by revin (edited 03-05-2014).]

quote Originally posted by revin: Opps! I finally figured out you are talking about Munson light covers. DUH I have the "Toms" headlights and wonder if the cover would be the same????? So on mine, it appears that the clear plexi was just formed over a headlight door. It sits flush. It has two "tabs" in the front that slide into the holes in the front part of the opening. ( could easily have been cut out) The back part has a flat lip for the two bolts to attach in the org. mounting holes for the door. I will look wayyyy back in my pics and see if I have a shot of them. EDIT: I sent a email and PM to "Cadver", Tom to see if he is still around. Looks like Haze was going to make the lights as well. may check with him I would think they would work on the Munsons. Maybe we could locate something on that build up??

On Tom's headlight kit (Cadaver) the Munson lexan covers work on there as well. I had to use some adhesive on the inner lip so they stay up correctly and stay perfect with the lines and not have one side not lined up. I have seen Munson's buckets, and Jimmy said he could do them for me. I never knew a set of lexan covers could be so difficult to uncover. As I told Jimmy, a reproduction of the Munson kit with the clear lenses to go on them would be a very good option for everyone looking for flushmounts. Doublec4's is the only kit out there right now for flushmount setup. I'm going to keep looking and see, someone has to pop up and want to sell their kit. I'm sure they all think it's worth gold now that a few people are looking for them and they aren't made anymore.

quote Originally posted by JimmyS: Munson lights are basically 3 piece... The clear lenses, Fiberglass buckets and metal light housings. Fiero Fiberglass has the rights to the Fiberglass buckets and has the molds. We are willing to work with and supply the buckets to someone who wants to reproduce a kit. However, someone pulling their own mold off a set of buckets and re-producing them for sale, will not be tolerated. The lenses and metal housings are not within our control so they are basically free game. Fiero Fiberglass still sells Munson parts and we give the proceeds (Kris's cut) to his wife. I would ask that if someone does re-produce this kit that they donate a portion of sales to Kris's wife.

It is good to know the buckets are available. How much will they be?

I have found the light chassis to be stable and easy to use, but, a little low creating that 30' gap in front of the car.

What it needs is someone who can produce all the parts and improve on the mechanical design.

So if Fiero Fiberglass has the remaining parts, are they in a position to market a kit?

Arn

I have all the molds.I can make the clear plastic lens.I can make the fiber glass buckets.I have in stock forty sets of the brackets.I have in stock one hundred and sixty of the sealbeams.I have forty sets of wire harnesses.Kris had the idea, and made the lenses and the fiberglass buckets.He was the guy who marketed the kits.When he passed I was given the molds and everything left over.I have enough of the lens plastic to make forty sets.All of the fiberglass buckets that were still around were rejects.I have just now reclaimed about four of the eighteen of those buckets.I am very proud of what Kris and I did with these kits.If I saw a need I would put aside some other things to do more of these kits .Thelinsells. Roger Thelin

What would be the price on the buckets?