Like the Holley scoop now copied by many? Is a joke that does little or nothing or worse reduce flow at various speeds.
OE air intake is a "cold air" setup w/ a muffler and water blocking part in the fender right behind the grill. Many idiots claim the small hole you easily see is air flow. Not. That is a water drain to remove water getting over the wall.
Some have mod'ed the muffler so output section allows more air Because many think that area pinches air flow. (Output is "pinch" to clear fuel fill pipe.) I think the muffler is Polypropylene and if true then could soften and reshape the pinch point a bit by heat rather then cutting it.
RD has/had a "kit" to delete the muffler but is a bad move for anyone that ever drives in iffy weather. Even people claiming drive only on nice days. Engine running sucks in a lot of water and worse w/o the muffler can't even go to car wash "tunnel machines" because V6 air filter will often get wet. Other air filter mods will also get wet and wet filters including crap K&N types have problems gets soak w/ polluted or soapy water. In that archive page has no clue how the muffler works or seem have no idea about small drain hole either.
Note: MAF setups often Hate K&N types and ruin the MAF because Filter Oil gets in the hot "filaments" and cooks/burns and wrecks them and often cleaning using MAF spray cleaners won't help.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
To help prevent filter element soaking, a rubber washer/gasket can be installed underneath the nut and a small amount of synthetic brake grease or dielectric grease can be applied to the threads of the screw post. Water running down through the vent grill and also being blown up from below when at road speeds can run down the sides of the filter canister or be forced upward to the bottom of it and cause canister and intake tubing rust.
The Fiero intake is essentially a cold air intake as it pulls it's air from outside the vehicle, unlike some of the aftermarket rigs that have the filter inside the engine bay, pulling in all that super-heated engine air. If you're thinking that a lot of water is being pulled in through the quarter panel intake, after driving for a while in rainy weather, look to see how dirty that area is. It should have a lot of dirt and rain splatter in the area if it truly is pulling in that much. I've never noticed my small black intake grill being exceptionally dirty. Wider tires that stand outside the front wheel wells might be a small factor, though. I understand that the rear quarter is a high-pressure area that helps increase the airflow into the intake.
Rain from top on Fiero V6 air cleaner can be a problem. Yes soft washers and grease should help w/ that.
Just Wet roads or rain isn't only problems the "muffler" reduce or stop the engine breathing water... You drive on any large or two-way roads right? Then left side of car has to handle Trucks Fogging or anyone slamming you w/ crap water from big puddles or worse. Think about how many times a truck passes and you can't see even w/ wipers at high speeds... If you drive on Interstate and related in rain this can happen a lot. The engine will try to suck in same and w/o the muffler the air filter will a very short life, more so w/ Fiero V6 filter can. Worse w/ "Holley" and some other scoops. (more in next Quote)
How muffler works...
CLICK FOR FULL SIZE
Pic above link flip to be view as from rear of car.
Nice thing the dirt he had was "white" that shows more then just arrows... Black Areas in that and other pics are washed cleaner by the "water jet" but rest doesn't get much and no force of water to wash clean. I think some water will sit to dry unless too much and flow over the small second wall. If you look careful seems have "bathtub ring" where water dried before. Small wall doesn't have a drain hole like big wall. (May look like it does but only how he cut the piece w/ dremel and hacksaw.)
Here's an older cut view that had a clue but missing a few points. Does show some of same patterns of washed areas. Like Front of big wall is cleaner then back. Fiero Inlet Mods, another look https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...021104-2-025146.html From same thread:
quote
jelly2m8 said: I knocked the water seperator out of my 87 GT once. I did it for the sound, not for any performance gains.
I didn't notice any difference in power either way, but what I did find was this. Before I go too far, I'll add that the car had a Holley side scoop on it.
I had a heck of a time keeping air filters in it. They were always water damaged, lots of leaves, stones, sticks, cigarette butts ( thats where they went when I flicked them out...;p) even some bird feathers once.
My .02 cents is that a knocked out water seperator + holley side scoop makes for a very short air filter service life.
Sorry I should have been more clear. This is a SC3800 Fiero setup modified to run 11's in the 1/4. This car is a toy - not a daily driver- not even close.
The engine bay gets warm and so I am trying to test a scoop on the side (much bigger than the tiny useless holley) that will actually pull in a fair amount of cool air. For my purposes, I am willing to accept the rain, dirt small birds etc that go with it. I have already managed to operate this way for 7+ years of taping off the existing vent hole anytime I wash the car to prevent the filter from getting wet. I also know how to clean, DRY and lightly re-oil a K&N style filter so as to not contaminate the MAF elements. I monitor my tune and have not noticed any deterioration in the MAF's ability over the years to provide accurate air measurements. This would clearly show up in out of whack fuel trims if there were an issue at part throttle or the wideband showing a crazy mixture at WOT.
Anyhow, Now I am upgrading the cold air intake to flow and look better and want to take the time to try to also get some additional cool air flowing into this area to make sure the area in front of the drivers side wheel well liner is cool and may also help the hot engine bay air rise out of the vent better. Air testing I have done shows it does rise out of the vent but it could move with more of a sense of urgency and take more heat with it as far as I am concerned.
Again, this is not a daily driver. I would not send my wife out with this car to drive from MN to California (without duct taping the air intake vent hole over). It is strictly a toy and I have a small roll of duct tape ready should I be caught in a down pour.
Anyways, anyone know of a decent side scoop currently in production for this purpose - or do I have to make something?
Thanks in adance for any suggestions.
Dime
------------------ 84/87 NB, 3800SC, E-85, VS Cam, 2.8 Pulley, 4T65E-HD, HP Tuners, AEM Wideband, Regal GS Gauges, S-10 Brake Booster. 1/4 mile -11.85 at 114mph
Use a racing brake duct intake with 3" tubing. You can also install the dual intake version with 1 pipe going to the intake and the other pointing at an area to be cooled.
[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 12-25-2020).]
Looking to get a little more air flowing in thru the driver side stock intake vent area to lower the air intake temp of my 3800 air intake.
Anyone know of any that are currently available?
Thanks and Happy Holidays!
Dime
As long as you have your rear deck lid it'll be impossible to meet your goals. Get another deck lid and cut off the part that covers the engine. You can use it when at the track only. The theory behind it is simple. Heat goes up, so if you eliminate that part the heat has a way to scape without restriction thus eliminating heat soak. Your advantage is that you are using E85, a super cooler fuel. Bleed some heat off the engine compartment and the E85 will do the rest.
As long as you have your rear deck lid it'll be impossible to meet your goals. Get another deck lid and cut off the part that covers the engine. You can use it when at the track only. The theory behind it is simple. Heat goes up, so if you eliminate that part the heat has a way to scape without restriction thus eliminating heat soak. Your advantage is that you are using E85, a super cooler fuel. Bleed some heat off the engine compartment and the E85 will do the rest.
Rei
I actually did that and incorporated an engine vent from an 84 into the decklid.
[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 12-25-2020).]
I'm confused... is the engine air filter breathing from the wheelwell area, and not from outside the car?
It seems obvious to me, but the best solution for cold air will be to suck air from outside the car, as in a stock Fiero.
Outside the car, the incoming wind can have a ram effect, however, near the skin the air is slowed down by the drag with the skin. This slow-moving air near the skin is called the boundary layer. So in general a scoop is placed away from the car body.
Williams FW11 Scoops visible on top of the sidepods.
McLaren MP4/4 Similar to FW11. The scoops didn't appear at all races, so maybe they were good for some tracks, and detrimental for others?
MD F-4 Phantom II This plane has a splitter to help keep the boundary layer separate.
If you don't want to have a conspicuous scoop, you can try a NACA duct.
They can be bought as pre-made items that you bolt on, and could be glassed in I suppose: https://www.pegasusautoraci...ion.asp?Product=3628 The main challenge here might be with finding a NACA duct short enough to fit lengthwise in the quarter panel.
If you're willing to do more extensive bodywork, the duct can be continued into the door.
The FW11 and the McLaren MP4/4 were turbo engines. The main cooling was to the intercoolers. In the big openings on the sides of the car are made to increase cooling on the intercoolers and radiators. If it was NA It would have a scoop on top and the side big openings would have venturis to extract air out of the engine bay. To use the same principle in the Fiero, side and under scoops will keep air flowing through the engine bay removing all that heat. In another note, that's why I made my exhaust the way I did it; reduce exhaust piping equals reduced engine compartment heat.
Oh. Someone thinks Engine gets too hot... again...
Fiero has more engine air cooling park and moving vs a F'ing lot of front engine cars. "Adding" Air flow to Fiero Engine bay is not needed by nearly all Fiero including engine swap cars and cause problems depending just what is done.
OE Vents let heat out fast even parked. The vents work w/ air flowing over and under the car when moving.
Many front engines are very close space back then and worse now and hold heat for longer time when parked. Most now block the "grill" to "help" tiny bit of MPG to get EPA CAFE points to car makers. Many even have plastic panels on bottom of engine bay too.
See Fiero Engine bay vs Heat. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/141784.html (Also covers cabin temps park in summer.) You can buy cheap "thermometer" to read any K-type Thermocouples to see if you really need to add more vents or whatever and check if you mods do anything. Many Multi-meters have temp function but most cheap are not made to use standard thermocouples plugs. Some came w/ an adapter for this but don't and find one or mod the "wire" to have probe plugs.
Now If the engine "runs hot" as measured by ECT sensor via ECM/PCM scan tools... Adding air cooling to the engine bay won't help. (Engine is "hot" using a dash meter including many aftermarket units often mean little or nothing.) Engine running at 200 to 230°F Is Normal. If running over 230-235°F then you have bigger problems to fix w/ the coolant system. Examples: Many are missing body panels in front to direct air to radiator. Even w/ Rad Fan force on this may not force enough air to cool right. Many Engine swaps have F'd up plumbing and can/will run hot because of that. That assuming you don't have crap in or damage the pipes, the rad, heater core, etc. See cave...
If something like electrical is cooking then adding more bay air likely won't help. Very likely need heat shields to block IR from exhaust heating them and other fixes like that. Big example: Many make or buy a Heat Shield for the Starter for this reason even tho starter gets a lot of air flow. Because IR from pipe and Cat can still heat the starter even w/ air flow. Or ICM Alt and others generate heat and have problem making them even hotter. ICM w/ iffy coil(s) or anything wrong w/ low or high volts can have a short life. Alt may need a heat shield but a shield can't block air to it or pointless to have fan(s) on/in them. Thermocouples can help if a E-part is getting hot. Engine E-parts are made to be hotter then most things but pushing past 200°F is often soon dead part. Say you measure 200°F on Alt case when car is moving then regulator etc are often much hotter then that. Same for many other E-parts.
As someone who's cooling fan never kicks on during normal driving during normal temps. Reading these temp concerns makes me think i should develop a LN2 kit.
You've heard of N2O and its amazing bolt on no mods needed press button go performance modifications. Now here for the first time we bring you LN2! What can LN2 do for you!
Oh. Someone thinks Engine gets too hot... again...
Fiero has more engine air cooling park and moving vs a F'ing lot of front engine cars. "Adding" Air flow to Fiero Engine bay is not needed by nearly all Fiero including engine swap cars and cause problems depending just what is done.
OE Vents let heat out fast even parked. The vents work w/ air flowing over and under the car when moving.
Many front engines are very close space back then and worse now and hold heat for longer time when parked. Most now block the "grill" to "help" tiny bit of MPG to get EPA CAFE points to car makers. Many even have plastic panels on bottom of engine bay too.
See Fiero Engine bay vs Heat. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/141784.html (Also covers cabin temps park in summer.) You can buy cheap "thermometer" to read any K-type Thermocouples to see if you really need to add more vents or whatever and check if you mods do anything. Many Multi-meters have temp function but most cheap are not made to use standard thermocouples plugs. Some came w/ an adapter for this but don't and find one or mod the "wire" to have probe plugs.
Now If the engine "runs hot" as measured by ECT sensor via ECM/PCM scan tools... Adding air cooling to the engine bay won't help. (Engine is "hot" using a dash meter including many aftermarket units often mean little or nothing.) Engine running at 200 to 230°F Is Normal. If running over 230-235°F then you have bigger problems to fix w/ the coolant system. Examples: Many are missing body panels in front to direct air to radiator. Even w/ Rad Fan force on this may not force enough air to cool right. Many Engine swaps have F'd up plumbing and can/will run hot because of that. That assuming you don't have crap in or damage the pipes, the rad, heater core, etc. See cave...
If something like electrical is cooking then adding more bay air likely won't help. Very likely need heat shields to block IR from exhaust heating them and other fixes like that. Big example: Many make or buy a Heat Shield for the Starter for this reason even tho starter gets a lot of air flow. Because IR from pipe and Cat can still heat the starter even w/ air flow. Or ICM Alt and others generate heat and have problem making them even hotter. ICM w/ iffy coil(s) or anything wrong w/ low or high volts can have a short life. Alt may need a heat shield but a shield can't block air to it or pointless to have fan(s) on/in them. Thermocouples can help if a E-part is getting hot. Engine E-parts are made to be hotter then most things but pushing past 200°F is often soon dead part. Say you measure 200°F on Alt case when car is moving then regulator etc are often much hotter then that. Same for many other E-parts.
My engine runs cool - no problem there what-so-ever. It is right at 180 where I have it set for normal weekend driving.
Just trying to lower underhood temps to get less heat into the intake tract. I have tested every possible inlet air temp and coolant temp I an think of over the past 7 years with this setup and she likes cooler IAT temps (the cooler the better) to make horsepower. Also likes cool coolant temps for best 1/4 mile performance. 155 coolant temp has shown the best in my car based upon extensive testing. Would not run that on the street though...that would be bad for a number of reasons. Back to air temp. Cold air holds more oxygen which means more fuel can be used which means more power. That is the goal I am after here.
------------------ 84/87 NB, 3800SC, E-85, VS Cam, 2.8 Pulley, 4T65E-HD, HP Tuners, AEM Wideband, Regal GS Gauges, S-10 Brake Booster. 1/4 mile -11.85 at 114mph
As someone who's cooling fan never kicks on during normal driving during normal temps. Reading these temp concerns makes me think i should develop a LN2 kit.
You've heard of N2O and its amazing bolt on no mods needed press button go performance modifications. Now here for the first time we bring you LN2! What can LN2 do for you!
Sold. I will take one. Liquid nitrogen air intake cooling - what do you have?
I think that there is a distinction to be made between air inlet temperature and coolant temperature.
Hotter coolant temperature is good because: Thinner oil Less heat loss during the power stroke from the hot pressurized gas to the head and cylinder walls
Lower air inlet temperature is good because: Air is denser, so more mass in the cylinder
There is an apparent contradiction in that you report that 155 °F coolant temp gives the most power.
I suspect that with hotter coolant, the head/intake is heating the inlet air, reducing its density.
Conclusion: Do not take air inlet temperature sensor readings at face value. True air inlet temp is equal to the incoming air, plus some temperature rise due to the hot engine.
If you want to use such low coolant temperatures, perhaps you should review your choice of oil viscosity.
If reducing coolant temp increases air density, then perhaps by using a thinner oil, you can further reduce coolant temp before the oil becomes too thick and reduces power.
Sold. I will take one. Liquid nitrogen air intake cooling - what do you have?
Well first of all the coolant lines you removed that go to the throttle body. Yeah we will be putting those back. Instead of hooking it to the coolant system we will be hooking it to our LN2 system. A feature we have is whenever you "floor it" this quick motion shatters the TB allowing unrestricted airflow directly into the engine. At the same time the LN2 sprays all over cooling the top of the engine and surrounding area providing performance enhancing coolness.
Well first of all the coolant lines you removed that go to the throttle body. Yeah we will be putting those back. Instead of hooking it to the coolant system we will be hooking it to our LN2 system. A feature we have is whenever you "floor it" this quick motion shatters the TB allowing unrestricted airflow directly into the engine. At the same time the LN2 sprays all over cooling the top of the engine and surrounding area providing performance enhancing coolness.
Passing liquid Nitrogen or CO2 through the throttle body having a bit of moisture can freeze it open. I'd be cautious about going this route. You can purchase Cryo cooler kits and cool your intake but they are typically used to cool intercooler heat exchangers.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Passing liquid Nitrogen or CO2 through the throttle body having a bit of moisture can freeze it open. I'd be cautious about going this route. You can purchase Cryo cooler kits and cool your intake but they are typically used to cool intercooler heat exchangers.
I think that there is a distinction to be made between air inlet temperature and coolant temperature.
Hotter coolant temperature is good because: Thinner oil Less heat loss during the power stroke from the hot pressurized gas to the head and cylinder walls
Lower air inlet temperature is good because: Air is denser, so more mass in the cylinder
There is an apparent contradiction in that you report that 155 °F coolant temp gives the most power.
I suspect that with hotter coolant, the head/intake is heating the inlet air, reducing its density.
Conclusion: Do not take air inlet temperature sensor readings at face value. True air inlet temp is equal to the incoming air, plus some temperature rise due to the hot engine.
If you want to use such low coolant temperatures, perhaps you should review your choice of oil viscosity.
If reducing coolant temp increases air density, then perhaps by using a thinner oil, you can further reduce coolant temp before the oil becomes too thick and reduces power.
Along the thought lines you brought up, it would be fun (if possible in a dyno cell) to be able to alter the inlet air temps, coolant temps and engine oil temps. I think the cooler the air temp the better, but it would be interesting to see what oil and coolant temps would be ideal for the 1/4 mile. Testing for road racing engines could not go nearly as low in temps because in longer ranges and timeframes you cannot expect to hold coolant or oil temps super low - or supercharged air inlet temps (if intercooled).
------------------ 84/87 NB, 3800SC, E-85, VS Cam, 2.8 Pulley, 4T65E-HD, HP Tuners, AEM Wideband, Regal GS Gauges, S-10 Brake Booster. 1/4 mile -11.85 at 114mph
Yeah kinda thought about joking of a frozen open TB. decided just breaking it off entirely would be more obvious i was kidding and added more hilarity. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Originally posted by DimeMachine: Along the thought lines you brought up, it would be fun (if possible in a dyno cell) to be able to alter the inlet air temps, coolant temps and engine oil temps.
In the real world, my understanding is that engines are first roughly tuned by computer simulation, then in a test cell like you describe with controlled temperatures. By the time the engine is placed into a car, its ECU should already be tuned, at least for the "engine operation" part.
Determining basic parameters such as MBT spark in the car is for folks with no budget like you and I.
I suppose that for some more subjective "driver preference" settings, those ones could be adjusted in the car. I'm thinking of things like the throttle-by-wire settings here.
I believe that forum user KurtAKX works on the integration of the powertrain in a vehicle; perhaps he could shed some light on this, as that's his actual job.
Originally posted by DimeMachine: My engine runs cool - no problem there what-so-ever. It is right at 180 where I have it set for normal weekend driving.
Just trying to lower underhood temps to get less heat into the intake tract. I have tested every possible inlet air temp and coolant temp I an think of over the past 7 years with this setup and she likes cooler IAT temps (the cooler the better) to make horsepower. Also likes cool coolant temps for best 1/4 mile performance. 155 coolant temp has shown the best in my car based upon extensive testing. Would not run that on the street though...that would be bad for a number of reasons. Back to air temp. Cold air holds more oxygen which means more fuel can be used which means more power. That is the goal I am after here.
You tested just How? Likely did nothing of real testing Yet You claim having more bay air will will make a dent on the Intake Air Charge (IAC) for the engine. You're missing the whole point of having Cold Air Intake and likely worse.
Aluminum manifolds get main heated from Engine itself and often coolant passing thru them but related and limited to time and volume of air to heat. Many 60° V6 and others have coolant "pipes" in the intake to get coolant to the heads etc. Engine Heads dumps a lot of heat to the intake too. Plus Intake manifolds Do Not have surface area inside and outside to dump heat to air like heatsinks for electronics or inter-coolers for turbos etc. IOW Al Intake manifolds get a lot of heat and little to release and intake manifold temps are close or same as engine temps. So Even w/ Cold Air intakes, Fiero and many others still sees wide range of IAC temps Idle vs WOT because Above Idle to WOT, the intake Moves a lot of air volume and won't take time to heat up. Whatever "Hot Air" at idle in the intake gets eaten in Microseconds just moving off a stop sign/light.
Don't go by MAT in the air cleaner to watch real IAC temps. For V6 and others need more tools and likely drill a small hole to read IAC in the intake manifold near the injectors. Same tools as bay vs heat thread or meter w/ max/min function.
(Will see Cold Air Intake working in real time on 87+ L4 because MAT is located between TBI and head. Is in #1 runner ~ 4" downstream of 700 TBI. That MAT will see 120+°F at idle drop to near = weather temp that day in less than a few Seconds, IOW This MAT can see freezing temps and lower in seconds driving in winter and rise quickly again next stop light. Likely L4 drops IAC temps faster then MAT reading because time to cool/heat the sensor plus time to scan because ECM and many newer PCM only updates 1 to 2 x a second to a scan tool. And that even w/ coolant heating under TBI to prevent fuel puddling under the TBI on the way to the Heater core.)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DimeMachine: My engine runs cool - no problem there what-so-ever. It is right at 180 where I have it set for normal weekend driving.
Just trying to lower underhood temps to get less heat into the intake tract. I have tested every possible inlet air temp and coolant temp I an think of over the past 7 years with this setup and she likes cooler IAT temps (the cooler the better) to make horsepower. Also likes cool coolant temps for best 1/4 mile performance. 155 coolant temp has shown the best in my car based upon extensive testing. Would not run that on the street though...that would be bad for a number of reasons. Back to air temp. Cold air holds more oxygen which means more fuel can be used which means more power. That is the goal I am after here.
You tested just How? Likely did nothing of real testing Yet You claim having more bay air will will make a dent on the Intake Air Charge (IAC) for the engine. You're missing the whole point of having Cold Air Intake and likely worse.
Aluminum manifolds get main heated from Engine itself and often coolant passing thru them but related and limited to time and volume of air to heat. Many 60° V6 and others have coolant "pipes" in the intake to get coolant to the heads etc. Engine Heads dumps a lot of heat to the intake too. Plus Intake manifolds Do Not have surface area inside and outside to dump heat to air like heatsinks for electronics or inter-coolers for turbos etc. IOW Al Intake manifolds get a lot of heat and little to release and intake manifold temps are close or same as engine temps. So Even w/ Cold Air intakes, Fiero and many others still sees wide range of IAC temps Idle vs WOT because Above Idle to WOT, the intake Moves a lot of air volume and won't take time to heat up. Whatever "Hot Air" at idle in the intake gets eaten in Microseconds just moving off a stop sign/light.
Don't go by MAT in the air cleaner to watch real IAC temps. For V6 and others need more tools and likely drill a small hole to read IAC in the intake manifold near the injectors. Same tools as bay vs heat thread or meter w/ max/min function.
(Will see Cold Air Intake working in real time on 87+ L4 because MAT is located between TBI and head. Is in #1 runner ~ 4" downstream of 700 TBI. That MAT will see 120+°F at idle drop to near = weather temp that day in less than a few Seconds, IOW This MAT can see freezing temps and lower in seconds driving in winter and rise quickly again next stop light. Likely L4 drops IAC temps faster then MAT reading because time to cool/heat the sensor plus time to scan because ECM and many newer PCM only updates 1 to 2 x a second to a scan tool. And that even w/ coolant heating under TBI to prevent fuel puddling under the TBI on the way to the Heater core.)[/QUOTE]
I am talking about the L67 3800 Supercharged engine. What does IOW stand for?
Next, L67 3800 engines have an IAT (intake air temp) sensor ahead of throttle body. All I am saying is if you have everything from the air filter to the throttle body at 130 degrees F vs 80 degrees F --- My money is on the 80 degree intake system making a few more horsepower. Even if the IAT sensor is reporting a number that is wrong (hotter than reality), the PCM is going to retard timing a fair amount on the 130 degree air to in an effort to prevent knock.
Are you saying one should not try to keep your intake tract cool on a performance vehicle?
[This message has been edited by DimeMachine (edited 12-29-2020).]
When I installed a 5.0 FI engine in my 1973 Mustang, I used two Olds Cutlass Ciera Filters stacked together inside an extended Fiero V6 housing- It worked very well. With JBA Headers and no Cat I had around 250 HP.
One of the few smart things CA did as far as smog on old cars; They would allow a later engine in an older car, but actually did not require the catalytic converter- Because the early cars were not designed to have a >>HOT<< cat under the floor (Avoiding car fires)
Originally posted by DimeMachine: Ogre, thank you for the response.
I am talking about the L67 3800 Supercharged engine. What does IOW stand for?
Next, L67 3800 engines have an IAT (intake air temp) sensor ahead of throttle body. All I am saying is if you have everything from the air filter to the throttle body at 130 degrees F vs 80 degrees F --- My money is on the 80 degree intake system making a few more horsepower. Even if the IAT sensor is reporting a number that is wrong (hotter than reality), the PCM is going to retard timing a fair amount on the 130 degree air to in an effort to prevent knock.
Are you saying one should not try to keep your intake tract cool on a performance vehicle?
So your IAT/MAT is in the air cleaner same as normal for V6 Fiero or similar in the pipes to fender?
You need more tools as said above. To check if sensor is accurate and more. Again MAT sensors need time to read changes to IAC. IAT/MAT sensors are Not like MAF sensors that reads near instantly. IAT/MAT have enough Mass to slow down reading so If IAC get hot at idle then have drag run then slow or idle in a few seconds then sensors likely won't read the change much. More likely won't see it using ECM scanner at all. Plus many IAT/MAT have insulation "paint" over the sensor element adding more Mass etc to the sensor slowing down the response time more. If the sensor have metal screen then will have a "painted" sensor element.
So again, your MAT is Upstream to TB and rest of engine and still getting hot in ~ 18" of plumbing? Then likely have problems more bay venting won't solve. Example: many Remove the intake muffler and put crap K&N cone then sucking hot air heated from exhaust, coolant pipe, etc. even when the cone is "in" the same fender area. If sure Cold Air parts don't leak and suck hot air... Could try insulation on the cold air plumbing and/or heat shield(s) to block IR from exhaust "lighting up" the air cleaner etc. IR heating often does not care air flow in the engine bay. Starter and other E-parts can cook under IR even when have huge air flow on them. IR heated CAI parts can heat IAC at idle because slow IAC has time to heat.
And this Ignores S-charger is likely pushing over 200+°F air into the engine. Nearly all "Roots class" blowers can't use an inter-cooler like full turbo or belt drive turbo that makes a huge difference.
