So far, 276,000 people say they are willing to wait that long, for just one model and one brand. Like them or not, electric cars are here to stay, just as electric lights, electric powered refrigeration, electric welders, and electric powered everything else is.
I can understand your skepticism. Elon Musk is known to make bad business decisions and hasn't had a successful venture yet.
I assume you are being sarcastic....
Compaq acquired Zip2 for US$307 million in cash and US$34 million in stock options in February 1999.[47] Musk received 7% or US$22 million from the sale.[45]
In October 2002, PayPal was acquired by eBay for US$1.5 billion in stock, of which Musk received US$165 million.[51] Before its sale, Musk, who was the company's largest shareholder, owned 11.7% of PayPal's shares.
With US$100 million of his early fortune,[59] Musk founded Space Exploration Technologies, or SpaceX, in June 2002. In 2006, SpaceX was awarded a contract from NASA to continue the development and test of the SpaceX Falcon 9 launch vehicle and Dragon spacecraft in order to transport cargo to the International Space Station,[63][not in citation given] followed by a US$1.6 billion NASA launch contract on December 23, 2008, for 12 flights of its Falcon 9 rocket and Dragon spacecraft to the Space Station, replacing the US Space Shuttle after it retired in 2011
Musk provided the initial concept and financial capital for SolarCity, which was then co-founded in 2006 by his cousins Lyndon and Peter Rive.[89][90] Musk remains the largest shareholder. SolarCity is now the second largest provider of solar power systems in the United States.[91]
Net worth as of 2015: $13 billion USD making him the 75th wealthiest person in the US.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 04-04-2016).]
And Bernie Madoff was part of the system as well and made everyone billions who invested with him.
In case you haven't noticed I am not an optimist. Oh there are people I am sure who do want to help others, mostly for their own gain but I am sure they just throw that money away to others. Just like Trump, or Hillary, Madoff, Kenneth L. Lay, WorldCom, and just for you Don, GM, ya all those executives and CEOs just wanted to do good for others. hey they all just wanted to help everyone. They never hurt anyone with their ideas and investments now did they?
Sorry seen it to many times before and until they are around for decades and follow threw with all their BS they say they are going to do I am not going to buy one, especially without dealerships local, that right there says to me that they never expected it to go this far. If they did they would have gone the extra mile because they are not going to be able to send out a tech to everyone that buys one that needs service if they ever actually make and sell that many of those they are going to have to have Brick and mortor stores as someone calls them.
Hey they could be the next Ford, but I really don't think so.
So far, 276,000 people say they are willing to wait that long, for just one model and one brand. Like them or not, electric cars are here to stay, just as electric lights, electric powered refrigeration, electric welders, and electric powered everything else is.
"Tesla Model S Electric-Car Production Above 400 A Week, Musk Says"
WOW 400 a week, these people who are ordering them right now think oh it will be out next year, sure they will and at the rate they are producing them now it will take them how long to build just the amount they have ordered? If I calculated correctly that would take 690 weeks, that's 4830 days, and that is over 13 years before that last person who ordered already would even see his or her car. still want to wait Don?
I am sure there are people here checking my math but then I was never a rocket scientist so the numbers may be wrong. See the thing is they are not no matter what he does going to get their car anytime this decade, unless he increases production some how. My small actually the smallest GM plant made more cars a day than they can in a week.
WOW 400 a week, these people who are ordering them right now think oh it will be out next year, sure they will and at the rate they are producing them now it will take them how long to build just the amount they have ordered? If I calculated correctly that would take 690 weeks, that's 4830 days, and that is over 13 years before that last person who ordered already would even see his or her car. still want to wait Don?
I am sure there are people here checking my math but then I was never a rocket scientist so the numbers may be wrong. See the thing is they are not no matter what he does going to get their car anytime this decade, unless he increases production some how. My small actually the smallest GM plant made more cars a day than they can in a week.
Steve
Yep. You need to figure again--now don't you? Model S Steve.
Model S is the $75,000 all wheel drive performance model that has been out for awhile and 400/wk is the production target and meets and barely exceeds demand.
You used the production figures for a Model S against the demand for a Model 3.
Think you were going to slide that past us?
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 04-05-2016).]
Yep. You need to figure again--now don't you? Model S Steve.
Model S is the $75,000 all wheel drive performance model that has been out for awhile and 400/wk is the production target and meets and barely exceeds demand.
You used the production figures for a Model S against the demand for a Model 3.
Yep. You need to figure again--now don't you? Model S Steve.
Model S is the $75,000 all wheel drive performance model that has been out for awhile and 400/wk is the production target and meets and barely exceeds demand.
You used the production figures for a Model S against the demand for a Model 3.
Think you were going to slide that past us?
Seeing that's the only numbers they have put out and those are 3 years old. The point is even if the doubled the production numbers it will still be 6 years, triple the numbers and maybe 3 years. But that ain't going to happen without some more workers or in this case robots, a huge investment beyond the numbers they are capable of. They said they hope to get to 800 a week, by now but no word on if they did or if they are close or even over.
Sorry still don't see some of those people even seeing their cars for at least 6 years if they actually do increase their line speed.
I'm pretty sure that they are only using a small fraction of the production capacity of their facility so they should be able to gear up quite a bit. I'll admit that Elon is often off on his estimates of delivery but You have to admit that he has found a ready market. That's no small thing. The future is on it's way!
Seeing that's the only numbers they have put out and those are 3 years old. The point is even if the doubled the production numbers it will still be 6 years, triple the numbers and maybe 3 years. But that ain't going to happen without some more workers or in this case robots, a huge investment beyond the numbers they are capable of. They said they hope to get to 800 a week, by now but no word on if they did or if they are close or even over.
Sorry still don't see some of those people even seeing their cars for at least 6 years if they actually do increase their line speed.
Steve
You do understand, that Tesla doesn't have a market for 800 Model S cars per week--don't you? It's a $75,000 performance car, that doesn't have that much demand--why would they (or anyone else) want to produce more cars than they could possibly sell?
For instance: GM, for the month March 2016, sold 2,753 Corvettes and they've been around forever. That is only 688 Vettes per week. I don't know how many 2016 Vettes GM builds every week, but they aren't going to exceed demand by a big margin. Good manufacturers do not out produce their market demand--that's simply a recipe for failure, and a tax burden on inventory, either for the company or a dealership.
quote
GM released their corporate sales report for March 2016 on Friday morning. Corvette sales for March totaled 2,753 cars, a decrease of -27.3% over the same time in 2015 which saw Corvette sales at 3,785 units.
Here's how your former employer looks at it, and I suspect Tesla looks at it the same way--they have to gauge the demand before setting a production quota, not the other way around: (This is for 2014 Stingrays)
quote
The 2014 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray is a very good car. In fact, it’s a great car. That’s why General Motors already has a long list of orders despite it only just reaching showrooms. In addition, dealers are expected to have few unsold examples up until the second quarter of next year--at the earliest.
That’s because the Corvette Stingray is being built at a rate of only 160 cars per day and General Motors Company [NYSE:GM] has no plans to increase this rate. That’s because increasing production would mean adding a second shift to the car’s production site in Bowling Green, Kentucky, which is costly and unlikely to be needed once the initial buzz wears off.
"You bring out a new Corvette and the demand is sky-high at the beginning, and then it tapers off," Corvette chief engineer Tadge Juechter explained to Automotive News (subscription required). "It's not worth making that investment [of a second shift], even though for a while we make a lot more money getting those cars out there."
Compounding the problem is the fact that GM will be pushing sales of the car outside the U.S., further limiting its availability in local showrooms. Then there’s the arrival of the Corvette Stingray Convertible, whose added complexity may slow the rate of production initially.
At present, GM is planning to build around 30,000 Corvettes (including future variants) per year, which is approximately double the number of the previous-generation model that was sold in 2012.
You don't breed more guard dogs than you think you can sell in your market do you?
Sorry seen it to many times before and until they are around for decades and follow threw with all their BS they say they are going to do I am not going to buy one,...
Oh be honest for 1 minute, Steve. You'll never buy a Tesla and you hate anyone with more money or more education that you.
I am not sure that this is really all that good. Look at the figures in the posting I am putting up. They lose money for every car they build. Lots of money. They were at the point of being bankrupted and then had this idea of getting up front deposits for their model 3. It brought in a whole lot of money and made their current bottom line look good. But, as they continue to bleed money for every car they sell will they be able to keep up? And if they cannot make money on the $75k car how in the heck are they going to make money on the $35k car?
When will they run out of money? Or will they just keep pushing that date back by these financial maneuvers? To me it kind of sounds like a version of a pyramid scam or a desperate ploy to stay ahead of bankruptcy.
Originally posted by Formula88: Oh be honest for 1 minute, Steve. You'll never buy a Tesla and you hate anyone with more money or more education that you.
Yes I will never buy one, until they make a pickup truck that can actually work like a regular gas run pickup at a comparable price.
As far as hating anyone who has more education and money than me that's not true, I have worked for many millionaire and multinational companies and I don't hate them. What I hate is someone who thinks they know it all because they have an education. Sh!t happens, school books do eventually change things because the truth comes out, yet because they were educated by this school or that school they know it all. many good people and even a couple of Maine millionaires are good friends with me and I with them, some pay very well, others like many here feel if you work with your hands and don't have a degree they are stupid and don't disserve what is a decent wage for the job being done.
But that has nothing to do with this thread, Tesla is not going to do this when people think they are and I don't think they will ever do it. Does he have money, sure but if he goes under it is not going to hurt him personally, he will do a trump and just file bankruptcy. It really doesn't hurt them, just the people they owe money to. And those very people are us, all of us who work for these company's have their life savings in the company for their retirements.
I am not sure that this is really all that good. Look at the figures in the posting I am putting up. They lose money for every car they build. Lots of money. They were at the point of being bankrupted and then had this idea of getting up front deposits for their model 3. It brought in a whole lot of money and made their current bottom line look good. But, as they continue to bleed money for every car they sell will they be able to keep up? And if they cannot make money on the $75k car how in the heck are they going to make money on the $35k car?
When will they run out of money? Or will they just keep pushing that date back by these financial maneuvers? To me it kind of sounds like a version of a pyramid scam or a desperate ploy to stay ahead of bankruptcy.
That's not what Elon said. He thanked the previous tesla owners for their purchases, the profit from which he rolled over into the model 3 project. Maybe he lied or maybe the breitbart article was a hit piece.
Originally posted by dratts: That's not what Elon said. He thanked the previous tesla owners for their purchases, the profit from which he rolled over into the model 3 project. Maybe he lied or maybe the breitbart article was a hit piece.
Their ain't a car company out there that actually make a profit on the first years new production, but hasn't Tesla been around for a few years now? They should be at least making some profit by now.
Yep, but that article leads one to believe the autopilot is completely extra, but it was made clear from the start, that the hardware comes with all Model 3 built and the software for the safety parts of autopilot are standard as well. (emergency braking/collision avoidance) The options of autopilot driving, Summon, and autoparking will require an extra fee to activate.
Yep, but that article leads one to believe the autopilot is completely extra, but it was made clear from the start, that the hardware comes with all Model 3 built and the software for the safety parts of autopilot are standard as well. (emergency braking/collision avoidance) The options of autopilot driving, Summon, and autoparking will require an extra fee to activate.
What is odd is that people are putting money down for an something that isn't clearly defined. The other shoe to drop is the tax rebate may or may not be available at the time of rollout (limited number of rebates) and that will raise the price $7500. Oh well. I have a feeling that there are still issues to be resolved and Musk has some time, but not much and he must start delivering on his promises.
As for autopilot... when there is a crash under autopilot control, we will see lawyers everywhere looking for a piece of the settlement. It will be interesting to see how the courts decide who is at fault.
Oh, I guess the economy isn't too bad, if we have 300K people who have enough disposable income to give Musk a $1K interest free loan
[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 04-06-2016).]
Their ain't a car company out there that actually make a profit on the first years new production, but hasn't Tesla been around for a few years now?
Steve
Not nearly as long as GM and they didn't make a profit on Volt until 4 years after the first model came out, and if you divide R&D and all development costs, they really aren't making a profit now, but developmental costs are always spread out over a very long period of time. Tesla is apples to oranges compared to IC powered cars. IC, drive trains, gasoline had all been around for decades before the early car makers started up production--Tesla has had to start from the ground up, because of the battery problem and no one had really applied Tesla software technology to automobiles--not to mention they have to accomplish the equivlilent of building the biggest gasoline refinery in the world. You comparing Elec vehicles to internal combustion automobile production is simply a non-starter and it betrays your innate distaste for anything you don't fully understand. I will probably never buy an electric vehicle, but I very much want this technology to work and become profitable.
What is odd is that people are putting money down for an something that isn't clearly defined. The other shoe to drop is the tax rebate may or may not be available at the time of rollout (limited number of rebates) and that will raise the price $7500. Oh well. I have a feeling that there are still issues to be resolved and Musk has some time, but not much and he must start delivering on his promises.
As for autopilot... when there is a crash under autopilot control, we will see lawyers everywhere looking for a piece of the settlement. It will be interesting to see how the courts decide who is at fault.
Oh, I guess the economy isn't too bad, if we have 300K people who have enough disposable income to give Musk a $1K interest free loan
The same held true for computers and cell phones when they first came out--few people really understood computers but millions went out on a limb and bought them, tho they did not put $1000 down on the counter before production really got into gear. This is just Tesla's (Musk's) way of marketing, but it's not completely unheard of either. One instance I am personally familiar with is putting down a hefty deposit for a side of beef. Straight from the farm to the consumer's freezer, processed, cut, packaged and delivered. No one knows if that beef is going to be high quality or not, how it will grade or how it will taste, but it is a very successful marketing strategy for many producers and they make $$ at it. The same holds true for all kinds of pets--people plop down deposits for puppies that aren't even born yet, and in some cases, not even conceived. I see ads all the time for people to buy into a subdivision home via deposit long before the first home or even infrastructure is built. And, look at how kickstarter is structured--millions of $$ are raised and there often is noting more than an idea. Not to mention the billions of $$ that are invested in 'developing nations' stocks every year by people wanting to get in while the getting is good. There is absolutely no guarantee what (if any) return they will get for their investment, but it is a trillion $$ industry. These are small scale examples, but the concept has been around for a very long time.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 04-06-2016).]
The same held true for computers and cell phones when they firt came out--few people really understood computers but millions went out on a limb and bought them, tho they did not put $1000 down on the counter before production really got into gear. This is just Tesla's (Msk's) way of marketing, but it's not completely nheard of either. One instance I am personally familiar with is putting down a hefty deposit for a side of beef. Straight from the farm to the consumer's freezer, processed, cut, packaged and delivered. No one knows if that beef is going to be high quality or not, but it is a very successful marketing strategy for many producers. The same holds true for all kinds of pets--people plop down deposits for puppies that aren't even born yet, and in some cases, not even conceived. I see ads all the time for people to buy into a subdivision home via deposit long before the first home or even infrastructure is built. And, look at how kickstarter is structured--millions of $$ are raised and there often is noting more than an idea. These are small scale examples, but the concept has been around for a very long time.
Computer.... bought them, yes. No issue there. As for beef vs car... well, you engineer a car, building it exactly as you want and you SHOULD be able to tell the buyer what they are reserving. With cattle, you can select the breed, the feed and the environment, but there are many factors out of your control. I don't see this as comparable. As for homes, they are built based on blueprints and unless you buy a manufactured home, you have to put money down before seeing the product (new home). That is not true in the car market (sub $50K). This is new and interesting, but I believe people are going to back out once Musk doesn't meet his delivery dates, price, or they realize they don't get the $7500 rebate. This is good for Musk as he used their money to shore up his finances. How many here would put down $1K to buy a vehicle 2 years out, sight unseen? Sounds silly, right? What if Tesla goes bankrupt... you will get your money back? Frankly, for big purchases, I like to see what I am buying, first.
Nothing against those who want to do this, but I am surprised at the number of people who are willing to shell out money and possibly commit to buying a second vehicle, sight unseen (let's face it, it will not be a primary vehicle for most). As I said, the economy must be doing well
I could use a Tesla or Bolt, or hybrid and save a lot on gas. No doubt. Pure EV would have to be a secondary vehicle as the charging infrastructure will not support my location for out of town trips. Oh, and other thing to remember, plug-ins will required a dedicated electrical line (unless they use 120v) and that may be a additional expense. I know I would have to upgrade my electrical panel or change out from electric to gas on an appliance. Just some of the hidden costs of going EV. Again... great idea and would love to switch for in town. But at $30K... for a second vehicle... not really practical for me. Nothing against Tesla or GM or anyone else but the price is still too high for the limitations EVs have.
Whether the govt subsidy is still going to be available going forward is also out of Musk's control. I suspect, in some form, it still will be, even if we have a R in the white house then. I'm sure some will back out, but the majority have waited a very long time for this opportunity and aren't willing to let it pass them by. Believe me, if Musk or some other reputable businessman said I could reserve a flyin car from his company for $1000, and fly it home in late 2017/early 2018 for a reasonable sum of $$ I'd write the check today.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 04-06-2016).]
I'm sure some will back out, but the majority have waited a very long time for this opportunity and aren't willing to let it pass them by. Believe me, if Musk or some other reputable businessman said I could reserve a flyin car from his company for $1000, and fly it home in late 2017/early 2018 for a reasonable sum of $$ I'd write the check today.
What if that flying car is already available or will be sooner? Who would you write check to? Bolt will be out first. Leaf is available.... etc. In your example, flying cars would already exist (just ribbing you)
For the model 3 the front end with no grill just looks incomplete or devoid of style. Somehow they need to dress the front of the car better, in my opinion.
Agreed. If the damn thing doesn't need a grill, then why style the bodywork as though one should be there?
Yes I will never buy one, until they make a pickup truck that can actually work like a regular gas run pickup at a comparable price.
As far as hating anyone who has more education and money than me that's not true, I have worked for many millionaire and multinational companies and I don't hate them. What I hate is someone who thinks they know it all because they have an education. Sh!t happens, school books do eventually change things because the truth comes out, yet because they were educated by this school or that school they know it all. many good people and even a couple of Maine millionaires are good friends with me and I with them, some pay very well, others like many here feel if you work with your hands and don't have a degree they are stupid and don't disserve what is a decent wage for the job being done.
But that has nothing to do with this thread, Tesla is not going to do this when people think they are and I don't think they will ever do it. Does he have money, sure but if he goes under it is not going to hurt him personally, he will do a trump and just file bankruptcy. It really doesn't hurt them, just the people they owe money to. And those very people are us, all of us who work for these company's have their life savings in the company for their retirements.
Steve
Well they do now have an SUV, so I could see a pickup in the future. They would be great for hauling with all the instant torque they have.
On superchargers, looking around me, there is one along I-70 between an hour to every 2 hours clear across the country as far as I would go. There is also 2 chargers within a 20 minute drive of home, not including a home one. So for me it would be no problem driving a whole day straight, stopping at lunch and dinnertime for quick charges. Not many people drive more that 300-400 miles a day on a trip anyway.
I am not sure that this is really all that good. Look at the figures in the posting I am putting up. They lose money for every car they build. Lots of money. They were at the point of being bankrupted and then had this idea of getting up front deposits for their model 3. It brought in a whole lot of money and made their current bottom line look good. But, as they continue to bleed money for every car they sell will they be able to keep up? And if they cannot make money on the $75k car how in the heck are they going to make money on the $35k car?
When will they run out of money? Or will they just keep pushing that date back by these financial maneuvers? To me it kind of sounds like a version of a pyramid scam or a desperate ploy to stay ahead of bankruptcy.
I thought they were finally going to start making money this year? And I've always suspected that Tesla's future isn't in car production, but in leasing battery technology. You put out 350,000 Teslas to people at a loss, but each of those cars needs electricity. You then lease out your technology for investors to build quick charge stations in needed areas. That is where the money is made. They lease their technology to other car companies and to real estate investors.
“About four months ago, I ran out of cash,” he wrote in a court filing dated Feb. 23, and first reported by VentureBeat, a Silicon Valley blog. Musk, whose other business interests include SpaceX and SolarCity, said he’s been living off personal loans from friends since last October.
Of course, Musk’s disclosure came in a filing as part of his divorce from novelist Justine Musk, so perhaps it is advantageous to be out of money at the moment.
A 6 year old article and one written when Musk had 100% (private) ownership of Tesla. Of course he was spending his own money and lots of it--this was before the IPO when the company began selling stock.
A 6 year old article and one written when Musk had 100% (private) ownership of Tesla. Of course he was spending his own money and lots of it--this was before the IPO when the company began selling stock.
Lots of companies take years to show a profit Steve, depending how they are structured. Amazon.com has yet to show a meaningful profit and they've been around for 20 years, but there are other segments of Amazon that have great profits so the low return on the .com side doesn't matter. For investors tho, Amazon.com has been pretty good. Amazon.com is valued at over $200 Billion and their stock is higher than Walmart's. Both Amazon.com's ceo and Tesla's ceo are on record as saying they are "in it for the long haul". Not every company is a fast bottom line financial success, but there is no disputing the fact that these 2 very different low/no profit companies are very successful.
