An interesting debate here. As someone who has BUILT a Finale I can say that it is the individualism that makes the difference. Replicas have to live up to the originals they imitate and most people just don't go far enough to include all the minute details. Archie sells a Unique rebody for our cars not a replica so they can never be dated as there is nothing to compare them to. I've heard it all ....... " is it a supra/350z/lotus etc, etc", but the best 5 words in the English language are " What the f__k is that". Priceless!!!!!
Originally posted by 1988holleyformula: Its a situation where I would love to be able to just sit down one-on-one with the owner and get his honest reasons.
No mystery here for it comes down to the Name/brand. It really doesn't make any difference (in their minds) that the kit is horribly off or that the badging is placed on a stock Fiero's 2.8 engine, floor mates, horn button, but the prime important here is the name "Ferrari" and added benefits the brand implies which is: prestige, notoriety, fame. wealth and other added benefits by usage of the name. I'm sure all of us at one time or another we judge a person driving around in a high end Mercedes or Porsche. We often wonder how much money they make, what job do they have. The same holds true for all who drive real Ferrari's.
Yes, replica owners will say that it's really the cost factor here and that's it's cool driving around in a car that is a fraction of the real thing fooling the unsuspecting, but at the end of the day it all comes down to one thing-the name for without the badging you really have nothing to go with. This is why you'll witness many going all out in gradually changing out Fiero parts that are easily spotted once you get pass the 10 feet visuals. They will change the dash, the shifter gate, wheel/brakes, and maybe try to copy that exotic engine sound using a 3.4 engine. End the end you have a person chasing the Ferrari image till there's no end always being 1,000 steps behind the real McCoy.
...the badging is placed on a stock Fiero's 2.8 engine, floor mates, horn button, but the prime important here is the name "Ferrari"
You forgot two: cheap Baby Turbo mirrors and gas caps.
I can't believe that my kit manufacturer didn't include these little emblems in my kit. I mean, he gave me everything else. If it hadn't been for me needing to go and hunt these couple little parts down myself, it would've been sooo easy! Insert tab A into slot B... wow. I can't understand why everyone isn't rolling around in a kit car. Anyways, when I stumbled across these little Ferrari tie pins, I just had to find a place to stick them on my car (there was no stopping me, I couldn't help it.) But I fooled several gas station attendants. Let me tell you all about it as I'm sure you'll be interested. You should have seen the look on this one guy's face when I rolled down the smoked window and said "Filler up". Well, if my mask and cape didn't fool him, his mind changed when I popped the remote door filler cap and he saw the emblem on the cap! I mean, the look in his eyes was priceless. The shape of the car meant nothing to him (you know how it is that all cars look like jelly beans today) but the gas cap emblem... well, that was what blew him away. Some people are just blind. Anyways, while we were talking, this couple from across the street came running over when they saw the car (they almost got hit crossing the road!). I let them talk to me for like, five minutes, and let them take my picture as a courtesy, because it's not everyday you get to meet a kit car super hero. Oh, and then there was this time... oh what am I talking about? Sometimes I get carried away... this is General Fiero Chat. You guys probably don't want to read this stuff in here. I'll see if I can't find a place to continue it in the Construction Zone. That makes sense right?
quote
Originally posted by madcurl: This is why you'll witness many going all out in gradually changing out Fiero parts that are easily spotted once you get pass the 10 feet visuals. They will change the dash, the shifter gate, wheel/brakes, and maybe try to copy that exotic engine sound using a 3.4 engine.
And then there are those who just don't like the way a stock Fiero looks nor performs so they change the dash, shifter gate, wheel/brakes, engine, all the body panels, glass, seats, interior, tail and headlights and then try to fool people by telling them it's a Fiero! Of all things! Who do they think they're fooling? You'd think they would put their own names on their creations instead of piggy backing on the Pontiac name. Some people have no shame.
Time for somebody to take their blinders off and look in the mirror. The emperor has no cloths.
And then there are those who just don't like the way a stock Fiero looks nor performs so they change the dash, shifter gate, wheel/brakes, engine, all the body panels, glass, seats, interior, tail and headlights and then try to fool people by telling them it's a Fiero! Of all things! Who do they think they're fooling? You'd think they would put their own names on their creations instead of piggy backing on the Pontiac name. Some people have no shame.
Time for somebody to take their blinders off and look in the mirror. The emperor has no cloths.
And then there are those who just don't like the way a stock Fiero looks nor performs so they change the dash, shifter gate, wheel/brakes, engine, all the body panels, glass, seats, interior, tail and headlights and then try to fool people by telling them it's a Fiero! Of all things! Who do they think they're fooling? You'd think they would put their own names on their creations instead of piggy backing on the Pontiac name. Some people have no shame.
Time for somebody to take their blinders off and look in the mirror. The emperor has no cloths.
You mean like what Pontiac did, right? Hehehe.
[/QUOTE]
90 wheel
90 engine bay
under the hood of the 90
Here we have GM enhancing the original Fiero body lines, engine, and interior (a bit), but still it's a Pontiac Fiero. Was GM trying to fool the general public or was it that they were improving the look of the Fiero? Repliciants on the other have no choice but to use the badging for they have no identity. If you remove the badging everybody would know "they are without clothing"-hehehe.
I know 2 people who each own Lamborghini Countaches. Both also have replicas of their respective cars and both also say they prefer the replica to the real! So what is your problem and why do you spend time hating on something that is not yours and has nothing to do with you anyhow?
[This message has been edited by I FAR I (edited 02-29-2012).]
Actually, I'm glad he posted the super hero pic again. It gives me an excuse to offer several captions for it (I just can't decide which one to choose...)
1. Cruising in #020 today. I got stopped for nearly 20-minutes outside a Walgreens when I saw two guys taking pictures while another couple was looking. Orville suggested that I bring a few and saves time if they're looking around for a camera.
2. I stopped at my local eatery and one of the employees said, "Look at the people viewing your car." I turned around and saw two dudes in a Mini rubber necking and the person behind them blew his horn at them. A guy in a new black four door Lexus was following me until I parked the chopper. While at Auto Sound Lab a older guy in a SS truck asked me a few questions while we were waiting for the light to turn green.
3. While the chopper was on the tow truck people were taking pictures. LOL. In the parking lot I had the hardest time trying to fix the problem and many people ( I mean many!) kept coming by asking many questions. I was nice and answered as many as I could.
4. Today I was at Albertson getting some gas. The car next to me was a lady with three kids gestured to me that one of the young kids wanted to take a look at the chopper, so she opened her car door. The young boys face was priceless.
5. Late last night around 03:44 in the morning I pulled over to a rest stop for a quick release. A guy down at the other end in a light brown Mitsubushi SUV saw me pull in with the wings up. I walked to the mens room to do my business I notice him waltzing around the chopper.
6. As I dropped off the video a couple of guys were walking around the car doing the same thing-trying to find out what it was. Keep in mind #011 has all of the Pontiac logos, but for some reason they see the name, but still continue to wonder what it is.
7. A guy and girl in a blue WRX was caught looking. I wasn't racing or anything like that, except getting onto the freeway. As usual people pull-up beside me to take a look.
(Edit to add: ...and there's lots (and I mean lots) more to choose from if you don't like what you see.) So who's calling who the super hero again?)
[This message has been edited by Bloozberry (edited 02-29-2012).]
Oh here we go again - thought this topic was over for what it was worth - and I don't think it's worth that much. But somehow knew the emperor would chime in. Yawn - I'm tired. Nothing else to really say that would mean anything that is important. Much like the whole back and forth of this I have a kit car , I have a modified fiero blah blah blah. And if you don't know I have a fiero with a kit on it and Ferrari badges.
Everyone who owns a kit-replica car knows there are some companies out there that produce really bad kits. There are some builders with less talent and money than others. When building a replica your goal should be to make it look as close to the original car as you can. That would mean putting on all of the original cars badging.
At least a guy who builds a kit knows what he wants his car to look like when it's done.
Curly's always right no matter what you say - so I'm sure he will chime in any second or wait a few days and post why he is the right one. This will just go on and on and on and on and on.
quote
Originally posted by Madcurl:
Unlike you I have more important things to do.
When were you planning to start?
[This message has been edited by Bloozberry (edited 03-01-2012).]
lol, at the end of the day we all drive 25+ yearold Fieros, so we all have something in common. Most people outside of the Fiero world already think we are crazy for driving and loving our beloved cars, so lets not prove them right. let it end.
HI, my name is Troy and I drive a Fiero. It all started when I was 18 and before i knew what happened I was hooked I cant stop looking at Fiero kits or Stock Fieros as I'm obsessed with both from my IMSA kit to my dream car a mint 1988 yellow t-top GT I cant fight the need to dump more cash into my sickness ( and yes I'm going to "just sign a check" that is why I work so hard) with the Help and support of this group i hope to stay strong and fight my weakness........
but for now time to go back to my crack dealer Archie as I have fallen of the wagon, we are adding a Supercharger to the LS7 PLEASE SEND HELP MY name is Troy and I'm a Fiero addict
[This message has been edited by troyboy (edited 03-01-2012).]
And then there are those who just don't like the way a stock Fiero looks nor performs so they change the dash, shifter gate, wheel/brakes, engine, all the body panels, glass, seats, interior, tail and headlights and then try to fool people by telling them it's a Fiero! Of all things! Who do they think they're fooling? You'd think they would put their own names on their creations instead of piggy backing on the Pontiac name. Some people have no shame. Time for somebody to take their blinders off and look in the mirror. The emperor has no cloths.
Last time I checked the car had three places for sporting the Fiero crest and the PONTIAC tail lamps are still there. Any questions?
Everyone who owns a kit-replica car knows there are some companies out there that produce really bad kits. There are some builders with less talent and money than others. When building a replica your goal should be to make it look as close to the original car as you can. That would mean putting on all of the original cars badging.
At least a guy who builds a kit knows what he wants his car to look like when it's done.
Yes. When building your replica your goal should be to make it as close to the original. Isn't that what I've been saying. Otherwise, if the your replica is grossly off the mark 10 feet away how does the owner "justify" putting badges on the car when is doesn't even come close?
Is there point where the owner says to himself, "Hey, this isn't even close. I should therefore not badge the heck out of it." Or is it just a "free for all" where anything and everything should be badged? Judging by the examples here it's a "free for all."
Last time I checked the car had three places for sporting the Fiero crest and the PONTIAC tail lamps are still there. Any questions?
Nooooo... not three places! And you kept the tail lamps? Really? Thank you for proving my point.
Your car has Corvette headlights... maybe it should be badged a Corvette. But wait... it has Camaro hood vents. And what did that hatch glass come from again? How the heck did you decide to badge your car? Decisions, decisions. If you had built a replica, it would have been easy.
Since you asked if I had anymore questions, I'll start by repeating the ones you haven't answered yet and then add a bunch more. Remind us all of your thoughts on:
1. the difference between an engine cover hiding a 2.8L engine and 20" wheels hiding Citation/Chevette suspension;
2. the difference between kit car owners struting their stuff and you;
3. the difference between a kit car and your cars;
4. who appointed you the judge of all that is tasteful;
5. why you keep repeating yourself;
6. when were you planning to do all those things that were more important to do? (Edit to add: you've been at this unprovoked rant since 01 Jul 2009... that's 33 months to the day.)
7. what motivates you to put down others and their cars in a public forum? Envy, jealousy, or are you afraid that more than just 5 year olds are impressed by kit cars?
8. why do you suppose no one criticizes the dash in your car? Do you believe it's because everyone finds it attractive? Ever stopped to think it's because most people have a schmick of decency not to criticize the work of others?
9. so which is it? All other kit cars look stupid next to the one you posted earlier, or just the ones that are grossly off the mark at 10 feet. Or was it 25 feet as you've said earlier as well. (Your definition keeps changing depending on how many people you want to have sympathize with you at any given moment.)
10. is a builder not someone who puts things together?
I guess I still have lots of questions. I've numbered them to make it easy for you to address them one by one. But let me guess... you suddenly have more important things to do.
[This message has been edited by Bloozberry (edited 03-02-2012).]
why do you suppose no one criticizes the dash in your car? Do you believe it's because everyone finds it attractive? Ever stopped to think it's because most people have a schmick of decency not to criticize the work of others?
I think it looks as good as the nose does.........
8. why do you suppose no one criticizes the dash in your car? Do you believe it's because everyone finds it attractive? Ever stopped to think it's because most people have a schmick of decency not to criticize the work of others?
8. why do you suppose no one criticizes the dash in your car? Do you believe it's because everyone finds it attractive? Ever stopped to think it's because most people have a schmick of decency not to criticize the work of others?
quote
Originally posted by madcurl: 02-04-2007 09:09 PM pg. 16
Constructive comments are always welcomed.
Hehehe. Therefore "constructive comments" comments applies to all-including replica. The difference between replica and I is that replicants don't like constructive comments like, improving upon the design or making it true to the original design. Replicants are content with patting other replica owners on the back saying, "Job well done Joe Blow." "You sure nailed those badges on this build." Meanwhile, the replica(s) is WAY off the mark. The justifications for not "hitting the mark of excellent" is, "I don't have enough money."
Truely, replica(s) are perhaps the only item that is replicated, badged, and packaged that doesn't look anything like the original car that is replicated (in most cases). Rotex, Iphones, and/or anything that is electronic in nature are copied, but at lest the items looks like the real thing on the outside, but obviously the inside isn't.
Since you asked if I had anymore questions, I'll start by repeating the ones you haven't answered yet and then add a bunch more. Remind us all of your thoughts on:
1. the difference between an engine cover hiding a 2.8L engine and 20" wheels hiding Citation/Chevette suspension;
Which one? #011, #015, #020, The Redux, or MadSpeed? All five cars have 20" on the rears, but all three obviously don't have the same suspension. While you're pondering over which car let me ask you this question.
Which engine is being covered by this Lamborghini replicated engine cover, 4-banger or a 2.8?
[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 03-02-2012).]
3. the difference between a kit car and your cars;
10. is a builder not someone who puts things together?
I guess I still have lots of questions. I've numbered them to make it easy for you to address them one by one. But let me guess... you suddenly have more important things to do.
Page 1.
quote
Originally posted by FieroGTRwideboby:
True that Curly, No matter how much we try to argue this fact. It can be simply put. If you have to put a badge from another vehicle other than a Fiero on your Fiero, then u are trying to resurrect someone else's design. The creativity is limited to the replication process. If however you take the creativity and you apply your own twist, hence design something that hasn't been done millions of times before, you are truly creative, not merely a " builder".
When it comes to creativity in Kitcars.... *A "builder" is someone who constructs an imitation of a designed product for its visual impact or essence. (accuracy is important)
*A " Designer ( has lots of creativity)" is someone who will take something and improve its visual impact, or altogether go through the creative process to design a new unseen product that can exceed production limitations.
Just my opinion, doesn't mean squat....
I side with Curly....I do however see things for what they are, I appreciate the work and passion put into replicas, i judge then more on quality than design and creativity.
9. so which is it? All other kit cars look stupid next to the one you posted earlier, or just the ones that are grossly off the mark at 10 feet. Or was it 25 feet as you've said earlier as well. (Your definition keeps changing depending on how many people you want to have sympathize with you at any given moment.)
I guess I still have lots of questions. I've numbered them to make it easy for you to address them one by one. But let me guess... you suddenly have more important things to do.
10, 25, or 50 feet with or without bifocals? Dude, take your pic. Some of the cars depicted here can be spotted from orbit. LOL.
Constructive comments are always welcomed. Therefore "constructive comments" applies to all-including replica.
Trouble is, you shovel out your criticism without being asked.
quote
Originally posted by madcurl: "You sure nailed those badges on this build." Meanwhile, the replica(s) is WAY off the mark. The justifications for not "hitting the mark of excellent" is, "I don't have enough money."
Congrats. You've found yet another way to say the same thing you've been saying for more than 2-1/2 years with the same result. You must be proud of yourself. A one man crusader driving around in a kit car bashing other kit cars.
quote
Originally posted by madcurl:
Which one? #011, #015, #020, The Redux, or MadSpeed? All five cars have 20" on the rears, but all three obviously don't have the same suspension.
Who cares which ones? If you've got even one you're no better than the guy who uses the engine cover.
quote
Originally posted by madcurl:
The "key" word here is: QUALITY.
Yes... and your car is the only kit car that's ever been built with quality. Now let's revisit what you said about builders because you've obviously forgotten:
quote
Originally posted by madcurl: The word "builder" is loosely being applied for nobody has actually "build" anything. They have put together a "kit" using various components that were already made by various venders.
So back to my earlier observation: builder = putter of things together everywhere except in a van down by the Kern River.
quote
Originally posted by madcurl: Are we to conclude that because of (a) kit that is greatly off the mark is considered a great looking kit? Or are we to conclude that all kits regardless of how poorly the outward appearance maybe is still-a great job well done?
Once again:
quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:
I defy you to quote anybody on this thread who subscribes to this fabricated point of view. The issue being debated here is your view that you must act as some spokesperson for all that is tasteful, authentic, creative, or intelligent within your own narrow definition of these subjective topics, and denounce all that isn't.
Now, back to the business at hand... you've conveniently left out answering the tough questions.
Originally posted by Madcurl: Today, a lady with a professional camera decided to take a few pics while I was at the gas station. I was about to leave when I saw the women walk 40 feet in front of the car and started taking pictures. She continues as I drove away.
Can't we all... just... get along?” Rodney King quote
There's only one person who can stop this whole thing dead in it's tracks. As long as he continues repeating his unsolicited, derogatory views, someone will challenge him to prove just how different he is than those he so arrogantly mocks time and again.
[This message has been edited by Bloozberry (edited 03-02-2012).]
2. the difference between kit car owners struting their stuff and you; 3. the difference between a kit car and your cars;
quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:
I don't mind when people mistake my GT for a Ferrari... it's actually kind of amusing. But it's gotta be way worse for the guy who moved into the next town over from mine with a real 308 GTSi since everyone who sees it thinks it's me in my 308 kit! I can only imagine how much it would piss me off to have everyone think it was a Fiero kitcar when in fact it's the real thing!
I guess the question is already asked by you.
quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:
4. who appointed you the judge of all that is tasteful;I guess
I still have lots of questions. I've numbered them to make it easy for you to address them one by one. But let me guess... you suddenly have more important things to do.
quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:
what do you think of this kit car 308?
Much depends on what you are looking for. A kit that is authentic as possible, or a car with some heritage and better potential to appreciate in value. By far, the true Mera has the greatest potential to appreciate in value, but there are other kits that more closely replicate the 308 than the Mera. So you have to choose what you want.
This is the quick-hit list of things to look for when looking for authenticity:
a. the fuel filler door being hidden under the rear quarter window louvres rather than being on the rear quarter panel; b. the decklid that opens up as part of the roof fairings (sail panels, whatever) rather than "inside" the fairings; c. the curved rear window rather than being flat; d. the door glass being two pieces instead of one; e. the front hood being the width between the the two fender flares (about half the width of the car) rather than the entire width of the windshield; f. the headlight grills mounted behind the headlight doors rather than on them; g. the headlights being round rather than square. h. the door handles being little stalks that rise up in-line with the B-pillar
I find it interesting that the very things I'm pointing out-youself have stated that, "things to look for when looking for authenticity" rules for replicas. The only difference is I'm actually using pictures that clearly show the differences between a real exotic car to ones that don't hit the mark.
I don't mind when people mistake my GT for a Ferrari... it's actually kind of amusing. But it's gotta be way worse for the guy who moved into the next town over from mine with a real 308 GTSi since everyone who sees it thinks it's me in my 308 kit! I can only imagine how much it would piss me off to have everyone think it was a Fiero kitcar when in fact it's the real thing!
Really, dude. You seriously think I'd let you slide by on that? Please. Go dawn your cap for you’re truly are masquerading around in a Ferrari suit.
Originally posted by madcurl: I guess the question is already asked by you.
What on Earth are you trying to point out?
quote
Originally posted by madcurl: I find it interesting that the very things I'm pointing out-youself have stated that, "things to look for when looking for authenticity" rules for replicas. The only difference is I'm actually using pictures that clearly show the differences between a real exotic car to ones that don't hit the mark.
No, the difference is you are mocking all kit car owners and builders, I am mocking you.
quote
Originally posted by madcurl: Really, dude. You seriously think I'd let you slide by on that? Please.
Oh, the shoe isn't so comfortable when it's on your foot. Imagine that.
[This message has been edited by Bloozberry (edited 03-02-2012).]
But I fooled several gas station attendants. Let me tell you all about it as I'm sure you'll be interested. You should have seen the look on this one guy's face when I rolled down the smoked window and said "Filler up". Well, if my mask and cape didn't fool him, his mind changed when I popped the remote door filler cap and he saw the emblem on the cap! I mean, the look in his eyes was priceless. The shape of the car meant nothing to him (you know how it is that all cars look like jelly beans today) but the gas cap emblem... well, that was what blew him away. Some people are just blind. Anyways, while we were talking, this couple from across the street came running over when they saw the car (they almost got hit crossing the road!). I let them talk to me for like, five minutes, and let them take my picture as a courtesy, because it's not everyday you get to meet a kit car super hero. Oh, and then there was this time... oh what am I talking about? Sometimes I get carried away... this is General Fiero Chat. You guys probably don't want to read this stuff in here. I'll see if I can't find a place to continue it in the Construction Zone. That makes sense right?
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Meanwhile, the replica(s) is WAY off the mark. The justifications for not "hitting the mark of excellent" is, "I don't have enough money."
