Jack Stands ...In Honor & Memory of Ethan Allen (yourfriendethan) (Page 4/5)
Australian AUG 02, 04:27 AM
I had it happen car came off stands be careful when using multiple stands it is just as dangerous with more jack stands when one goes it changes how weight is distributed and slides off stands i always also use a couple of wheels so if it comes down there is something to break fall which saved me. RIP Ethan and be careful everyone.

[This message has been edited by Australian (edited 08-02-2021).]

Shho13 AUG 02, 01:07 PM
I left a message on his obituary page to his family. Here's the link if anyone is interested in doing the same.

https://www.simplicity-fune...han-Allen-2/Memories



------------------
"Discord"
Red 1988 GT under restoration!

Let's Go Mets!

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[This message has been edited by Shho13 (edited 08-02-2021).]

G-Man AUG 02, 05:42 PM

quote
Originally posted by reinhart:

It would be helpful to prevent this from occuring again to another Fiero owner if we knew the specific circumstances of why the failure occured. Did the ground shift? Was the jack stand faulty? Were the wheels on the ground unchocked and allowed the car to roll?



In one of the texts I received from his wife, she said something about he may not have had the wheels blocked properly. When this is all over, she is planning on getting rid of the car and I've offered to make a post in The Mall when the time comes. I'll probably make a trip up there (wife's parents still live in West Lafayette) for pics and to assess what kind of damage it sustained in the fall. If she feels like talking about it, I can probably get more detailed info then about what happened.

Gary
IMSA GT AUG 02, 10:50 PM
When I found out about Ethan, I sent his family an email through Ethan's email address hoping his family would check his mail. His wife Ashley just responded to my email, thanking me. I would recommend you all send an email to her through the email link in his posts.

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 08-02-2021).]

Cajun AUG 04, 09:20 AM
That's terrible news but unfortunately **** happens. Without knowing the details as to how Ethan had his Fiero supported it's difficult to comment either way.

I work under my GT all the time but, very consensus about safety and how the car is supported. My father years ago was almost killed by his own car. Working underneath it with only a jack. Needless to say the car moved, the jack fell and so did the car. Luckily he survived with only a head wound. Since that time whenever I would under any car I not only use jack stands but also block up. One can never be too safe. Also, I don't use jack stands that have a ratchet to secure the jack stand in position. I use the type that has double pins to position the jack stand height.

Safety, Safety...........
Fiero Vice AUG 10, 12:27 PM

quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

Very tragic for a new member to pass like this. It just reinforces the need to practice safety in all aspects of our hobby, know what you are doing, and more importantly, how things can hurt you at every step.

I have used jack stands quite frequently for a few decades so here is my list of jack stand failure modes:
  • Not under car: Jack stands only work when they are pulled from storage and put into the proper location under the car.

  • Base pushes into ground: High risk when used on dirt, gravel, asphalt, plywood, or cinder blocks/bricks.

  • Base not wide/stable and allows the stand to tip over: Use widest base jack stands you can, avoid round or triangle bases.

  • Jack stand too short: You want the largest/tallest stand with the widest base for whatever task you are doing to maximize stability as well as safety if/when bad things happen. A 10" tall jack stand has a smaller base than an 14" tall one. Both could be used to raise a car to 16", the 14" stand is by far safer (more stability) especially when bad things happen. In the event the latch/pin fails, the car will likely fall less with the taller stand, which will reduce the impact load to the base, and in the event the jack stand it tipped over, but stays under the car, the additional width of base might make a significant difference in how low the car falls.

  • Top of stand slips off chassis: High risk when the chassis is not supported level or the jack stand is placed on a non-level section of the chassis. I prefer the tops of the stands to be "I___I" shaped so it captures the frame rail, cradle rail, etc. Jack stands should also be positioned to the chassis based on the work you are going to do - they resist slipping and tipping better in 1 direction, so if you are going to be pushing/pulling in 1 direction, optimally orient the jack stands to maximize resistance.

  • Top of stand pushes through chassis: High risk when top of jack stand is put under plastic or thin/excessively rusted sheet metal. If it flexes when the car is lowered onto it, it is not in the right spot.

  • Mechanical failure of stand/latch/pin: Use heavy duty stands from a trusted brand, inspect the stand and latch mechanism for any cracks, verify latches or pins are fully inserted. When latches are used, orient them away from the action. You don't want to be swinging a hammer or pushing a wrench towards the latch/lever on the jack stand. Accidentally hit the latch hard enough you can release it under load.

  • Excessive use of pulling, bumping force: Jack stands are meant to support heavy vertical loads, not excessive horizontal loads, some tasks should simply never be done while a car is only on jack stands.



Awesome advice, FieroGuru!

Although, I'm a bit surprised that you are not for triangle bases. The triangle ones I got is at 21 inches wide, along with big circle feet that plants very well on the ground. It's even wider than my craftsman 6 ton stands that I got from the 90's.
Fiero Vice AUG 10, 12:41 PM

quote
Originally posted by G-Man:


In one of the texts I received from his wife, she said something about he may not have had the wheels blocked properly. When this is all over, she is planning on getting rid of the car and I've offered to make a post in The Mall when the time comes. I'll probably make a trip up there (wife's parents still live in West Lafayette) for pics and to assess what kind of damage it sustained in the fall. If she feels like talking about it, I can probably get more detailed info then about what happened.

Gary



Very nice of you to help his wife, Gary. Yes, if possible, we would like to know more details about what happened for education purpose.

I just found out from Mike Borroughs from StanceWorks channel on YouTube, that his buddy's, Evan Browns, car fell off the stands few days ago and crushed him. He's still alive in ICU, with two broken vertebrae, a broken pelvis, six broken ribs and both collarbones are completely smashed. They expected that he will make a full recovery.

All the reasons why we should be educated on how those things happen to anyone, even famous people if they are not doing it right.
Fiero Vice AUG 10, 01:13 PM

More info about Evan Brown's accident:

According to Mike Burroughs, Evan's car had its rear wheels on the ground and was in gear. The front was up on jack stands. A loose wire caused the starter to arc, and the car lurched forwards, toppling the jack stands and crushing Evan.

Lesson: Before we go under any vehicle, the vehicle has to be parked and not in gear... along with parking brakes on and rubber chocks in place.

I know a buddy who was working under a truck when it went over his shoulder... all because he didn't have his parking brakes on or chocks in place.
GTGeff AUG 10, 01:19 PM
This has brought back a lot of bad memories and emotions having lost a brother-in-law to a similar accident when he was only twenty-four years old. As a result, I am always cautious whenever I go under a car. I remind myself to slowdown, take my time no matter how much of a hurry I'm in, chock the tires, use jackstands, and I always keep the jack in place as well. I have always tried to instill this in my kids as well. He was a great guy and my kids never had the opportunity to meet him. His car hobby and fantastic collection of muscle cars and parts would have made him a multi-millionaire today. He had close to 200+-cars! Mostly parts cars. We had the opportunity to purchase from his estate his low miles 1967 Shelby GT 350 very cheaply but we had just purchased our 1984 Fiero and didn't have the money or storage space. RIP in Ronald.

My prayers and condolences go out to the Allen family on the loss of Ethan in this tragic accident.

Jeff

[This message has been edited by GTGeff (edited 08-10-2021).]

fieroguru AUG 10, 08:10 PM

quote
Originally posted by Fiero Vice:
Awesome advice, FieroGuru!

Although, I'm a bit surprised that you are not for triangle bases.



Below are all three shapes with equal dimensions (though I did give the triangle a little more). All vertical loads go to the center of each shape. The stability from the side is the distance from the center to the sides or points of each shape.



The 4 corners of the square are the furthest point, so actions from those directions will have the highest stability. The worst side on the square is the same as the round base from any direction, the 3 sides of the triangle are very short to the center load point, so loads in these 3 directions have a stability about 40% less than the worse side of the square.

When all sizes are kept the same, the triangle jack stands will have 3 significantly less stable directions. Murphy's Law would imply those would be the only direction you would need to use them in.