Preparing my Fiero for an engine swap (Page 5/23)
longjonsilver AUG 14, 11:55 AM

quote
Originally posted by BadNewsBrendan:
cause I am cheap


that's a good thing. It means you can use your money for something better.

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I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun! 3800 SC swap to come!

longjonsilver AUG 28, 10:08 AM
My right headlight motor took a dump. Fortunately, i have 4 (four) gen 2 motors. My original gen 1 motors have never worked manually, (i know it takes a long time to turn them, is 1/2 an hour long enuf for you?) . THEY HAVE NEVER WORKED MANUALLY So i installed a gen 2 motor on the right so i can crank it manually and drive at nite with two headlights (i hate padiddles). i am working on getting a gen 2 harness, and i pulled the headlight module out of the wreck that i got some GT stuff from. Meanwhile my car winks.



jon

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I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun! 3800 SC swap to come!

longjonsilver SEP 13, 01:28 PM
i modified my gages today by taking the circuit board off my 84 4 cylinder tach and installing it behind the GT tach faceplate. Only the circuit board was replaced, not the guts of the GT tach. Works perfectly. i marked the V6 tach circuit board so i would know that it came from a V6.

jon

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Astronomy says we will find a coded signal from outer space. Then we'll KNOW that life exists there, for coded signals aren't by chance.

Biology says there are coded genetic signals in every cell, but we KNOW that no intelligence created life.

I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun!

longjonsilver NOV 01, 10:42 AM
i set about installing the S10 (actually a 95 GMC Sonoma) brake booster on Freya. It was really a ***** getting off the booster from the inside of the truck. Hours later i left with my booster, and $25 Canuck Bucks liter. However, i found this when i got home and set about to cleaning it up. Didn't notice it in the scrapyard, cuz it was covered with a plastic housing and wires. Bottom was fine, this was the top.



i decided upon investigating on how boosters work that this side of the booster was either in a vacuum or atmospheric pressure, so i just used a little JB weld and some fibreglass mesh to strengthen the JB weld and then another layer of JB weld on top.

i then cut the Sonoma booster rod as long as i could and then cut the Feral rod to the recommended 4 5/16", and long nut and i was good to go, or so i thot.
But my rod was too short, the brake lite was on all the time! So i set about modifying it. i removed Freya's rod and cut off the threaded end and welded on a longer piece to make the total length of Freya's rod 5 1/4". Not pretty but very strong. The rod then was too long to go into place in the car, so i ground off 1/8" and found that it was exactly the right length. Final length of the Freya's rod from the center of the hole to the end is 5 1/8".




With the brake pedal as high as the clutch it took a little getting used to the new hite, but i find that the braking force is MUCH greater

jon


------------------
Astronomy says we will find a coded signal from outer space. Then we'll KNOW that life exists there, for coded signals aren't by chance.

Biology says there are coded genetic signals in every cell, but we KNOW that no intelligence created life.

I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun!

[This message has been edited by longjonsilver (edited 03-24-2019).]

longjonsilver NOV 06, 05:27 PM
Here is my Sonoma booster in place. The lower passenger side bolt to the firewall is a pain to get in. i left it out, as i still have to do the headlight conversion gen1 to gen2, and want to be able to access the wiring behind the booster easier.



i still havent decided if i will modify the gen 1 harness to work with gen 2 headlight module and motors or whether i will try to install my frankenharness. It seems it would be a lot less work to modify my gen 1 harness and leave it in place. i will have to make the trip to the electrical distributor to get clamps to extend the length of my battery cable for my battery relocation under the passenger headlight.

jon

------------------
Astronomy says we will find a coded signal from outer space. Then we'll KNOW that life exists there, for coded signals aren't by chance.

Biology says there are coded genetic signals in every cell, but we KNOW that no intelligence created life.

I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun!

longjonsilver NOV 06, 06:04 PM
Speaking of the brake booster, lets have some fun with math and physics
Force=Pressure * Area
lbs force = lbs/in^2 * in^2

the ratio of lbs force new booster/lbs force old booster = Pressure of Vacuum * Area of new booster / Pressure of Vacuum * Area old booster

Since the pressure of the vacuum for both booster is equal, the pressure terms drop out (anything divided by itself is 1)

so we are left with

the ratio of lbs force new booster/lbs force old booster = Area of new booster / area of old booster

Area = Pi * radius ^2 . so Pi divided by Pi drops out ( anything divided by itself is 1) . So we have

the ratio of lbs force new booster/lbs force old booster = Area new booster/ Area of old booster = r^2 new booster/r^2 old booster

Old booster is 9" and new booster is 10 3/4" so R of old booster is 4.5" and R of new booster is 5 3/8"

R^2 of old booster is 20.25 and R^2 of new booster is 28.89

So the ratio of lbs force new booster/lbs force old booster = 28.89/20.25 = 1.427 . But i can't measure that accurately with my equipment so rounding off we get a ratio of 1.4

In other terms the S10 booster is 40% more powerful than the old booster. But you knew that didn't you?

jon

------------------
Astronomy says we will find a coded signal from outer space. Then we'll KNOW that life exists there, for coded signals aren't by chance.

Biology says there are coded genetic signals in every cell, but we KNOW that no intelligence created life.

I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun!

pmbrunelle NOV 06, 06:36 PM
Yes, this estimation tells you the difference in maximum assist force available.

However, we cannot determine the linear-region gain of each booster by simple external measurements.

On a stock Fiero with good tires, does the brake booster saturate under emergency braking? I doubt it, because if the booster saturated, an inordinate amount of pedal force would be needed to stop the car.

I suspect that the S-10 booster has more gain, and that is what causes the different feeling in a Fiero.

The S-10 booster has more area, and thus more maximum assist force, but if the maximum assist force was not attained with the Fiero booster, then I don't think this parameter has any effect in a Fiero.
fieroguru NOV 06, 09:03 PM
About 6 1/2 years ago, I made an air cylinder rig and measured caliper line pressures (front & rear) at various pedal forces with both the stock booster as well as the S10.


Here are a couple of the tables. There are more here: http://www.fiero.nl/cgi-bin...1747&style=printable

code:

Caliper Pressure Comparison Stock 88 Booster vs. Rodney S10 Prototype:

  				Stock Booster	S10 Booster   	Caliper		Caliper
Input Air	Pedal Force	Engine On	Engine On	Pressure 	Pressure 
(psi)		(lbs)		Caliper (psi)	Caliper (psi)	Gain(psi) 	Gain(%)
5		8.9		135		<200 		n/a		n/a
10		17.7		320		450		130		41%
15		26.6		550		700		150		27%
20		35.4		675		950		275		41%
25		44.3		975		1275		300		31%
30		53.1		1150		1475		325		28%
35		62.0		1200		1500		300		25%
40		70.8		1200		1550		350		29%
45		79.7		1275		1575		300		24%
50		88.5		1325		1600		275		21%
55		97.4		1475		1675		200		14%
60		106.2		1475		1700		225		15%

Average of 
10psi to 50psi input pressures:	963		1230		267		28%


Here is another one that shows the gains front and rear as well. Notice the non-linear response where the front starts strong and tapers off with additional pedal force, while the rears start lower and gain increases with pedal force.

code:

Caliper Pressure Comparison Stock 88 Booster vs. Rodney S10 Prototype:
All Tests with Engine On, but there is data from two 88 Fieros - 3.4TDC and 2.5L

		3.4TDC	2.5L	Stock	3.4TDC	3.4TDC	2.5L	3.4TDC	 
		Front	Front	3.4TDC	Front		Rear	Rear	
  		Stock 	Stock	vs.	S10   	Front	Stock	S10	Rear
Input Air	Booster	Booster	2.5L	Booster	Gain	Booster	Booster	Gain		
		(psi)	(psi)	(psi)	(psi)	(%)	(psi) 	(psi)	(%)
5		135	n/a	n/a	<200 	n/a	n/a	n/a	n/a
10		320	400	-80	450	41%	300	300	0%
15		550	600	-50	700	27%	400	400	0%
20		675	800	-125	950	41%	500	550	10%
25		975	925	+50	1275	31%	600	675	13%
30		1150	1200	-50	1475	28%	675	775	15%
35		1200	1225	-25	1500	25%	700	775	11%
40		1200	1250	-50	1550	29%	700	775	11%
45		1275	1300	-25	1575	24%	725	850	17%
50		1325	1325	0	1600	21%	725	850	17%
55		1475	1375	+100	1675	14%	775	900	16%	
60		1475	1400	+75	1700	15%	775	900	16%
longjonsilver NOV 09, 09:34 PM
Well, i have a list of winter projects for Freya. First up is the battery relocation. Not from the rear of the car to the front but from the front to under the passenger headlight.



For the last to years i have set the battery on top of the spare tire using some tire chains (for front weight) a piece of plywood and some foam. The spare tire hold down rod was rebent to hold down the battery. The tire chains gotta go.

So i got the idea for relocating the battery from Lunatic on this forum. His thread is located here: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...3/HTML/000148-3.html Battery box section starts March 2015

First off i got out the sawzall.



And here is the result:



Here is a mockup of the battery box made in plastic cardboard to see if it fit correctly:



And in place without battery:



Bottom of battery box is right on the facia, so the facia will be bolted right to the battery box.

Speaking of facia, a long time before i started this blog, i determined to convert my bumperpad front end (which i have always hated, especially when i saw the GT front end on the Indy ) to the GT front end. i never had a wind dam for that facia so i adapted my bumperpad facia to fit. Notice the different curvatures. Gonna have to deal with this as the GT facia was wider than stock as installed and rubs the curb, meaning always having to repaint the lower part of the facia.



More later.

jon

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Astronomy says we will find a coded signal from outer space. Then we'll KNOW that life exists there, for coded signals aren't by chance.

Biology says there are coded genetic signals in every cell, but we KNOW that no intelligence created life.

I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun!

[This message has been edited by longjonsilver (edited 03-11-2019).]

Patrick NOV 09, 09:52 PM

quote
Originally posted by longjonsilver:

First up is the battery relocation. Not from the rear of the car to the front but from the front to under the passenger headlight.

For the last to years i have set the battery on top of the spare tire using some tire chains (for front weight) a piece of plywood and some foam. The spare tire hold down rod was rebent to hold down the battery.



Just curious... why do you prefer that new location as opposed to under the spare tire?