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| Upper Frame rails and rear sheet metal (Page 1/4) |
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silver 85 sc
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OCT 20, 08:53 PM
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Finally getting around to fixing my '86. I have the fastback removed and can see all the cancer that has been brewing over the years. It appears that a simple replacement would be to get some either 2" or 2 1/2" square tube and just roll it to shape. I have access to a structural shape roller at work. My son-in-law and brother operate the machine. Both say the the frame rails can be duplicated on the machine, less the holes of course. As for the sheet metal I have cut out paper shapes and am going to laser cut new sheet metal for the infected areas. I think that for the most part I can get acceptable replacement sheet metal parts for these problem areas. Initial estimates indicate I can do a set of upper frame rails for around $65.00 per pair. As for the sheet metal as I get things laid out I will start posting prices and pictures. I can also offer these parts in stainless, and you don't have to have stainless wire to weld them back into place! I would appreciate feed back, pics would be especially helpful in communications, if you are looking for specific areas you want duplicated. I realize this is a large project, but I will be working on the car all winter so I can access the desired areas for duplication.
Rich
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Dukeiboy
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OCT 20, 10:19 PM
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I could use a set of frame rails for my '84. I'd rather completely replace them than patch into old crappy metal anyways. Very good price too.
side note: Did I see you tonight at the new dbq Farm & Fleet? ------------------
Red '84, 75,000 miles.. work in progress
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FieroMaster88
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OCT 20, 11:30 PM
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Yeah, I need upper frame rails and trunk corners for my indy. Would be interested if you make the parts. ------------------
88 Coupe: 2.0L Turbo 4 Cylinder, W2A, T25 Turbo, water/meth injection
84 Indy #64: Restoration Project, Super Duty 4 swap
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silver 85 sc
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OCT 20, 11:54 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Dukeiboy:
I could use a set of frame rails for my '84. I'd rather completely replace them than patch into old crappy metal anyways. Very good price too.
side note: Did I see you tonight at the new dbq Farm & Fleet?
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Yep that was me, couldn't pass up the tire deal. Got tires for both the '84 and the '86 GT for $600. You did get a good photo right? If I recall we met at the Qwik Stop back in August I was headed to the Quad Cities for a show and you were headed on a car cruise. PM me and we can get together and get what you need.
| quote | Originally posted by FieroMaster88:
Yeah, I need upper frame rails and trunk corners for my indy. Would be interested if you make the parts.
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Keep watch. I am going to come up with something.
Rich
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DKcustoms
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OCT 21, 06:46 AM
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I too would need frame rails (passenger side mostly) and upper trunk corners for my 86 SE
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olejoedad
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OCT 21, 08:35 AM
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Please be aware that GM engineered the front and rear sections of the space frame to absorb energy through controlled collapse in the event of an impact.
Improperly designed replacement panels and upper frame rails could turn deadly in the case of a severe impact.
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theogre
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OCT 21, 11:46 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by olejoedad:
Please be aware that GM engineered the front and rear sections of the space frame to absorb energy through controlled collapse in the event of an impact.
Improperly designed replacement panels and upper frame rails could turn deadly in the case of a severe impact. |
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Yup...
Car frame, front and rear, is made to be strong but not too strong because those areas are part of crush zones.
Replacement frame parts too stiff then could go thru "firewall" into cabin and maybe hurt or kill people.
Weak crush zones from rusting or repairs then won't protect people.
Frame/cradle holes can do any or all jobs:
Control fail points during a wreck
Reduce overall weight
Give access to fasteners
Let areas to dry fast
You can see front crash testing by searching youtube.
Even car's hood have build in fail points so won't go thru windshield. Fiero has Line of "notches" in the hood + 2 bolts at back and holes in the hood that lock up in a crash so they make the hood to fold up.
Many fixing frames by boxing in holes etc are only fooling themselves or worse, customers think car will be safe after repair. Most times patches means More rusting in the near future because box in area Traps moisture etc. Many Sealing plans often doesn't help or make rusting out faster. Just One small spot let in water, road salt, etc and rots from inside. I've seen OE frame and repairs that look ok on outside but the metal is so thin or even breaks from rust inside of the areas. Is why I put notes about rust issues for jacking a car. See my Cave, Safe Jacking (I recently move that section next to 10 rules.)
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Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)
The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top and bottom of every forum page...)
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silver 85 sc
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OCT 21, 08:42 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by theogre:
Yup...
Car frame, front and rear, is made to be strong but not too strong because those areas are part of crush zones.
Replacement frame parts too stiff then could go thru "firewall" into cabin and maybe hurt or kill people.
Weak crush zones from rusting or repairs then won't protect people.
Frame/cradle holes can do any or all jobs:
Control fail points during a wreck
Reduce overall weight
Give access to fasteners
Let areas to dry fast
You can see front crash testing by searching youtube.
Even car's hood have build in fail points so won't go thru windshield. Fiero has Line of "notches" in the hood + 2 bolts at back and holes in the hood that lock up in a crash so they make the hood to fold up.
Many fixing frames by boxing in holes etc are only fooling themselves or worse, customers think car will be safe after repair. Most times patches means More rusting in the near future because box in area Traps moisture etc. Many Sealing plans often doesn't help or make rusting out faster. Just One small spot let in water, road salt, etc and rots from inside. I've seen OE frame and repairs that look ok on outside but the metal is so thin or even breaks from rust inside of the areas. Is why I put notes about rust issues for jacking a car. See my Cave, Safe Jacking (I recently move that section next to 10 rules.)
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You know you are right. The smarter thing to do would go with 2 "Z" channels in parallel with each other. That way you would still maintain the strength and keep the horizontal crush ability. The roller will roll them with no problem. I am going to give it a try.
Rich
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Dukeiboy
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OCT 21, 08:47 PM
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Here's the picture my girlfriend took!
It would not be too hard to cut holes into the new rails to provide the crush zone some people are concerned about.------------------
Red '84, 75,000 miles.. work in progress
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84fiero123
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OCT 21, 11:01 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by silver 85 sc:
Finally getting around to fixing my '86. I have the fastback removed and can see all the cancer that has been brewing over the years. It appears that a simple replacement would be to get some either 2" or 2 1/2" square tube and just roll it to shape. I have access to a structural shape roller at work. My son-in-law and brother operate the machine. Both say the the frame rails can be duplicated on the machine, less the holes of course. As for the sheet metal I have cut out paper shapes and am going to laser cut new sheet metal for the infected areas. I think that for the most part I can get acceptable replacement sheet metal parts for these problem areas. Initial estimates indicate I can do a set of upper frame rails for around $65.00 per pair. As for the sheet metal as I get things laid out I will start posting prices and pictures. I can also offer these parts in stainless, and you don't have to have stainless wire to weld them back into place! I would appreciate feed back, pics would be especially helpful in communications, if you are looking for specific areas you want duplicated. I realize this is a large project, but I will be working on the car all winter so I can access the desired areas for duplication.
Rich |
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Sorry but I agree with theogre, stay with the original thickness sheet metal and bend it with a brake and cut the holes with a drill or plasma cutter. The crush zones are imperative to keep you and your passenger safe in the event of a crash. They were built the way they are for a reason, making any of the metal of any thicker or thinner sheet metal is a recipe for disaster, not to mention a nightmare to weld a thicker or thinner peace of sheet metal to what you have left of the original space frame. I know I worked at a GM factory as repair and as a line welder for 2 years and as a professional welder in the construction industry welding everything from oil rigs to sheet metal. You start welding thicker to thinner metals and you dam well better be an accomplished welder or you are going to do some damage that can affect the structural integrity of the weld and sheet metals strength.
Stay with the same thickness sheet metal, please, for your own safety. These cars are made to take one hell of a hit in the front and the back and even from the side by the way the space frame is made, changing the thickness of the sheet metal you use will have tragic result to you and anyone in the car with you if you have an accident !
Steve
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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 10-22-2014).]
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