80's Cars That Should Have Never Been Canceled (Page 1/4)
IMSA GT JAN 22, 09:23 PM
Don't know if this was posted before but the Fiero starts at the 12:00 mark.
css9450 JAN 23, 09:02 AM
Thanks for posting..... I don't think we've seen it before.

Interesting to see the Cimarron on there. I always liked the Cimarron, and I feel it gets a bad rap as just a re-badged Cavalier. I think eventually with some different styling and continued high gas prices, it could have been turned into a big seller. Gas prices eventually fell in the late 80s and Americans quickly developed a love affair with SUVs.... The Cimarron was doomed.
hyperv6 JAN 23, 11:26 AM
What sadly these videos do is post an emotional topic but often leave out all the substance to the vehicle as to truly why the were canceled or how.

What was left out here was the panic in the late 70’s of fuel shortages and higher mpg requirements long before Fuel Injection and many other things were applied.

GM had planned to kill the V8 for a while and had Corvette people testing a twin engine. Citation mule for more power. They were all scared.

The Buick GN was just at the end as GM as wel, the industry was all moving to FWD to save weight and because consumers were wanting it. The early Zbuivk turbo engines were a mess till they got water cooling and intercooler. Even then till better oil came most Turbos had issues even the Mitsubishi.

The Eagle was a good idea but poorly executed by a failing company even today they would not have survived as even Subaru is not selling tons of cars. The engines leaked oil and they just were poorly mfg.

The Cimeron was just a total failure of GM again under funding a good idea and using the wrong. The car should have never existed. The show car they presented was not a production model.

The Fiero as we know was killed by the Corvette folks and was damaged by 5he GM80 cancellation. The Fiero was never going to continue in six figure sales and never should hav3 been sold that way to start. 2 seat cars are a limited segment of buyers. Also if the second gen had lived odds were it would have for only a few years most sports cars out side the Miata or Corvette live up to 10 years at best.

These videos are click bait and fail to present the true historic context of these cars. This is why we need a publish accurate history of the Fiero produced as there is so much miss information out there.
David Hambleton JAN 23, 02:06 PM

quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:

The Fiero as we know was killed by the Corvette folks and was damaged by 5he GM80 cancellation. The Fiero was never going to continue in six figure sales and never should hav3 been sold that way to start. 2 seat cars are a limited segment of buyers. Also if the second gen had lived odds were it would have for only a few years most sports cars out side the Miata or Corvette live up to 10 years at best.

These videos are click bait and fail to present the true historic context of these cars. This is why we need a publish accurate history of the Fiero produced as there is so much miss information out there.



Why didn't the 'evil' Corvette folks target the Camaro or Firebird? They were much more likely to be cross-shopped than the Fiero...

Here's an accurate Fiero history:
Fiero production:
1984: 136840
1985: 76371
1986: 83974
1987: 46581
1988: 26402

The Corvette angle is interesting folklore but it looks like the financial boys (who call the tunes) ended Fiero production due to lack of customers/profit.

Skybax JAN 23, 02:37 PM

quote
Originally posted by David Hambleton:

Why didn't the 'evil' Corvette folks target the Camaro or Firebird? They were much more likely to be cross-shopped than the Fiero...



Because the 4-seat Camaro/Firebird pony car platform/market was never a threat to the Corvette 2-seat sports car (apples & oranges).

The Fiero was a 2-seat mid-engine sports car with state-of-the-art space-frame design and composite panels, it was years ahead it its time.

The "evil Corvette guys" aka GM BRASS targeted the 2-seat Pontiac Banshee sports car in the 1960's and that's how the Firebird came to be.


quote
Originally posted by David Hambleton:

The Corvette angle is interesting folklore but it looks like the financial boys (who call the tunes) ended Fiero production due to lack of customers/profit.



It's not folklore, its history...

Chief designer Hulki Aldikacti wanted to build a Corvette rival but GM Executives never wanted it. This wasn’t the first time Pontiac desired to produce a two-seat sports car. In the 1960’s the Banshee was cancelled because GM said it would cut into Corvette sales, so Pontiac was allowed to build the Firebird on the Camaro platform as an alternative consolation prize.

Hulki decided the Fiero concept had to be pitched and sold as a mass-produced commuter initially. As the Fiero slowly evolved into the sports car envisioned by Hulki, the GM Executives could not allow the Fiero to outperform its flagship Corvette sports car in the early to mid 90's for almost half the cost. (outperform meaning all around = safer, better handling, performance) The C4 Corvette was stale with low sales, years without changes during the Fiero run.

Even though GM spent roughly $300 million ($800 million in today’s money) to produce the Fiero and it made a profit every year it was sold, the GM Executives forcasted a potential loss of $20 million between 1989 and 1995, thus claiming there was no future market for it and wanted to focus on the Camaro/Firebird <cough>.

Ironic the mid-engine C8 Corvette is essentially a modern day Fiero.

[This message has been edited by Skybax (edited 01-24-2022).]

cvxjet JAN 23, 03:03 PM
The Fiero was killed off due to a combination of factors; A) The first year needed much more development ("Never buy the first year")....B) The fire problem (Magnified out of proportion by the media).....C) GM brass not liking a non-standard design ("Standard design that can be sold by all 5 companies").....D) Sales dropping; The Fiero was incredibly successful the first year, which saturated the market but also put a bunch of Fieros out there that were "Half-baked"....Yes, E) The Vette guys not wanting any competition.....And finally, magazines like Car & Drivel, who's whole mantra was "ANTI-AMERICA!!!!" ("American cars all suck- buy foreign because they are all perfect!"

Also, the last year sales are artificially very low because the car was cancelled early in 88. If production had continued they probably would have sold around 40-50 thousand 88 Fieros.
Skybax JAN 23, 03:17 PM

quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:
The [1984] fire problem (Magnified out of proportion by the media



No question it played a factor, media still doing it today X1000 with current events. Yes I agree there were other contributing factors like insurance cost in late 80's, however talking about the Corvette threat specifically...

On the back end, the Corvette threat was a very real problem with plenty of evidence to back it up. People often misunderstand it... its not as simple as Corvette vs Fiero because there are many buyers who would still prefer a Corvette. The problem was, looking at a 1988 GT, what was accomplished in a very short time, what was being tested and on the drawing boards, and a potential 1994 Fiero GT mid-engine 2-seater sports car that outperforms the Corvette in 8 out of 9 categories for 40% less cost, now THAT was the biggest problem they had to deal with at that present time. ( not 1984 4-cyl engine fires because that was a thing of the past, not profits because it was still profitable, and not sales because Corvette sales were in the gutter... https://www.corvsport.com/c...e-sales-volume-year/ )

[This message has been edited by Skybax (edited 01-24-2022).]

cvxjet JAN 23, 04:01 PM
The sad thing is that there is room for a sports car with "Supercar" performance and also a lower performance sports car....Basically, the Ferraris and Porsches vs the RX7 and 300ZX (normally-aspirated versions)....Although I love the idea of extreme performance, I prefer to have a car that I can have fun with at 40-50 mph...not a car that has to be pushing 60-80 on back roads to have any fun with.

Maybe if they had simply signed off on a promise of keeping the Fiero under a certain power-to-weight number, while the Vette could "Go for gold"...

But like I stated above, there were numerous obstacles to Fiero production continuing; Here in the bay area, I usually catch hell for the "Fiero-bomb" and also the "Worst car ever made" Some people actually believe that ALL Fieros caught fire, and that pieces are constantly falling off of them.

The only problem that my Fiero has (Right from the first day I drove it) is that "Loose nut behind the steering wheel"...But that's not IT'S fault!
Skybax JAN 23, 04:53 PM
I agree completely, the Fiero is unique and has its own place, and what I never understood is all the ignorance despite long-standing facts. (sound familiar?)

The crazy part is, when I worked as a technician on all makes/models full-time in the 80's and 90's, and in the early 90's I worked at a used exotic car dealership for a year, so I wrenched on and drove most of the exotics and sports cars you can think of from 1975 to 1990 (except Countach, never touched one of those). The fascinating thing for me is, and this is very hard to explain to most car people, after owning 3 Fiero's GT's and all my experience with all those other mid-engine cars is, the Fiero is truly a better car in its totality than many of those other expensive exotics. Now when I say better, I'm talking about space-frame and body design, reliability, safety, ease and cost to repair and maintain, ergonomics, and so on (that's not including performance potential with modifications). Sure it doesn't have the same prestige or "label" that comes with the others, but I'm not looking to impress anyone, I bought the car for me to enjoy and I don't care what anyone thinks. That is the biggest difference between the genuine car enthusiasts and the posers. If I inherited a 1980's Lotus or Delorean, I would sell it immediately and still rather have a Fiero GT, lol.

Bottom line, the Fiero is an exceptional value for what it is, especially when you compare it to other vintage mid-engine options and the prices of everything currently.

[This message has been edited by Skybax (edited 01-23-2022).]

cvxjet JAN 23, 06:15 PM
My first "Car-Love" was my dentist's Pantera.....he coulda pulled a tooth without Novocain while I was looking out the window at that car! Later, after getting out of the Navy and getting a (Relatively) high-paying job, I could have bought a used Pantera- but by then I had discovered the truth about most exotic cars. Horrible reliability, expensive upkeep, and ergonomics based on some form of alien life.

The simian-driving position was in every Italian sportscar; No leg room, and your arms stretched way out. The BMW M1 was a revelation with better ergonomics and better reliability, and then the Acura NSX came along and put all of the Italians on the trailer (Ergo and reliability- not performance)

They complain about the "Fieros catching fire" but among the richie-rich car fanatics, it is well known that Lambos catch fire quite often.

All the mags compared the Fiero to the MR2, but the Fiero performed the same or better than the RX7 and 300ZX of the 80s (Non-turbo versions) and was substantially cheaper.