Old original factory tire disposition? (Page 1/2)
formulaWA FEB 25, 01:07 AM
I am thinking of getting new tires for my Fieros which gets me wondering what to do with the original current Eagle GT +4 tires. They are very low miles original factory tires (less than 5,000) and cosmetically in perfect shape.

Should I throw them away or keep them in case someone wants them for original authenticity at a show?

Thoughts?
johnyrottin FEB 25, 11:01 AM
I would be happy to take the for Hulkis original 88 GT. Would be nice to have those when it goes to the Pontiac museum.
theogre FEB 25, 12:03 PM
Sadly Low millage doesn't mean anything here...

Could use them at a show etc but don't drive on old tires.
May look OK to you but time, air pollution, etc, still attacks the tires and can fail w/o warning.
Remember that Most get filled w/ "shop" and other air compressors that push pollution inside and attack there.

Car tires are never expected to live > 10 years let alone driving 10 - 30 years.

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave

hyperv6 FEB 25, 12:14 PM
What generally happens is old tires get hard over time. Some will, crack other just get hard and lose their grip. Get them hot and there is a risk of damage happening.


what damages tires is Ozone. This can come from sunlight or electric motors.

If stored properly you can prolong their life but that seldom happens.

The tires are good for original cars that are low mileage, trailered and displayed. But best yo not drive them.

In the case of the Fiero I don’t think they have any reproductions in this size to they are your only option for original tires.

https://www.chaliklaw.com/b...s-of-ozone-cracking/

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 02-25-2022).]

theogre FEB 25, 01:23 PM

quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:
what damages tires is Ozone. This can come from sunlight or electric motors.

Ozone here is mainly "Ground Level Ozone" and is a Pollution problem Regulated by USEPA and others.

You may hear of PA's "Code Orange" and related days when have Pollution Warnings to people that can't breath outside.
GL Ozone is a big reason why.
Sun light, high heat and Fuel Evaporation is big part of making GL Ozone. That's why on Code Orange days state tells to avoid buying or handling gas during day time. And Why all vehicles built after mid '70 has EVAP "cans" etc... (And why Gas Station have/had Vapor Recovery nozzles in many places.)

Even w/o them calling for pollution warnings, Ozone, oil and more on the roads and driveways attacks rubber parts 24/7.
If a vehicle is parked on dirt or grass, often have Lawn Chemicals that eat the rubber too.

Not just tires... Hoses and Belts only last a few years for similar reasons. And that's assuming Coolant etc don't have problems eating inside out.
Most Windshield wipers only last a few months because rubber is so small even when parked indoor. (Silicone and some others last longer but not a "life time" many gimmick makers claim.)
Is part why I tell people to buy SAE J1401 Brake Hoses. Often sold as "Pro Grade" parts and Much better than OE and other hoses and has all right ends and support bracket.
cvxjet FEB 25, 02:45 PM
As has been stated- Do not use for driving; They will come apart.

Looked on Tire Rack for the 215/60-14 size tire; BFG T/As and RIken Raptor HR are the only two there (There may be others from other companies)

The T/A used to be a great tire, back in the 70's....But now it sucks- doesn't even have the traction it USED to have back then- they went to harder rubber- and they are $$$$$$$

Go with the Riken Raptors......It is a (Basically) modern tire.
hyperv6 FEB 25, 06:01 PM

quote
Originally posted by theogre:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hyperv6:
what damages tires is Ozone. This can come from sunlight or electric motors.

Ozone here is mainly "Ground Level Ozone" and is a Pollution problem Regulated by USEPA and others.

You may hear of PA's "Code Orange" and related days when have Pollution Warnings to people that can't breath outside.
GL Ozone is a big reason why.
Sun light, high heat and Fuel Evaporation is big part of making GL Ozone. That's why on Code Orange days state tells to avoid buying or handling gas during day time. And Why all vehicles builtl after mid '70 has EVAP "cans" etc... (And why Gas Station have/had Vapor Recovery nozzles in many places.)

Even w/o them calling for pollution warnings, Ozone, oil and more on the roads and driveways attacks rubber parts 24/7.
If a vehicle is parked on dirt or grass, often have Lawn Chemicals that eat the rubber too.

Not just tires... Hoses and Belts only last a few years for similar reasons. And that's assuming Coolant etc don't have problems eating inside out.
Most Windshield wipers only last a few months because rubber is so small even when parked indoor. (Silicone and some others last longer but not a "life time" many gimmick makers claim.)
Is part why I tell people to buy SAE J1401 Brake Hoses. Often sold as "Pro Grade" parts and Much better than OE and other hoses and has all right ends and support bracket.[/QUOTE]


Look I deal with tires. My grandfather was a tire builder. My father and mother in law are retired from a major tire mfg. and I have worked with and know tire engineers.

There are a number of factors but sunlight and Ozone are prime factors that damages rubber.

Just saying pollution is a generic term and does not apply to all storage conditions.

How and were tires are stored or protected are a prime factor.

I have used tires well over their expiration date but I followed the storage recommendations to avoid sun and electrical motors. I don’t recommend it but I knew what to look for.

The recommended times are general terms to protect customers worst case and to take in many factors that may or not be in play due to legal trouble that could happen.


hyperv6 FEB 25, 06:10 PM

quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:

As has been stated- Do not use for driving; They will come apart.

Looked on Tire Rack for the 215/60-14 size tire; BFG T/As and RIken Raptor HR are the only two there (There may be others from other companies)

The T/A used to be a great tire, back in the 70's....But now it sucks- doesn't even have the traction it USED to have back then- they went to harder rubber- and they are $$$$$$$

Go with the Riken Raptors......It is a (Basically) modern tire.



Well when you name tires to just say TA, Eagle or Pilot means little. They use the name on many different tires and they can range from basic cheap to expensive top line performance.

The white lettered TA Radial is just a modern version of a 70’s racial tire. They have improved it a bit but they are not really much of a performance tire by todays standards.

White letters are white rubber and generate hot spots and are not structural rubber. Heat will destroy this area. But a Comp TA in various forms can be a very goo performance tire.

FYI Ripken tires are owned and made in the same plants as the BFG and Michelin tires. They are owned by Michelin.

Same for Dunlop in America and Europe as well Copper tire are now Goodyear owned.

Firestone is owned by Bridgestone. General tire is owned by Continental.

With tires often you get what you pay for. Also with 14 and 15 inch tires it is getting harder to get some sizes anymore.

Patrick FEB 25, 08:31 PM

quote
Originally posted by theogre:

Could use them at a show etc but don't drive on old tires.
May look OK to you but time, air pollution, etc, still attacks the tires and can fail w/o warning.




quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:

What generally happens is old tires get hard over time. Some will, crack other just get hard and lose their grip. Get them hot and there is a risk of damage happening.



Okay, I admit it, I'm just looking for an excuse to re-post the following ...from a 2012 thread. Any value to original 88 GT Tires?


quote
Originally posted by Patrick Here:

Last September a fella brought his pristine 5-spd '88 Fiero GT to the autocross track. This GT had 10,000 miles on it, and the original tires. The car looked fantastic!

I got to drive it.

It was scary dangerous.

The GT slid all over the place (on dry pavement). No, it wasn't due to my (lack of) driving skills.

I suspect the rubber dries out over the years and loses it's ability to grip the asphalt.


[EDIT] Just for fun, I thought someone might enjoy reading what I posted in the local Fiero club's forum after I had driven this car on the track.



quote


Charles walked up to me and said, "Do you want to co-drive my car?" Excuse me, do I want to co-drive an '88 GT with 10,000 miles on it? Hell Yeah!

It occurred to me that the last time someone autocrossed an '88 GT with 10,000 miles on it was probably back in 1989!!!!

Anyway, as excited as I was, I was also terrified that I might possibly damage this pristine car. Putting it into the fence would not be the wisest thing to do!

It turned out that the '88 GT had lots of power, which was great, but it also had 23 year old tires on it with rubber as hard as porcelain, which was not so great. Combine that with shocks and struts which have deteriorated from sitting for two decades and all I can say is that the first slalom I went through was... challenging. I couldn't believe how squirly the car felt. It felt dangerous. Did that slow me down? A little... until the next run.

The next run I wanted to push it a bit more, just a teeny weeny bit. Bad move. I totally lost control of the car and nailed, not clipped, but nailed two cones. Worse than that, one cone wedged under the front of the car. It was with great shame and embarrassment that I returned to the starting grid with a bright orange cone wedged under this beautiful pristine '88 Fiero GT. Did I mention that this GT only has 10,000 miles on it?

Charles was very good about it. He didn't yell at me or strike me or anything. Charles is a fine man.
reinhart FEB 26, 06:10 AM
I'll take the other side of the argument. I took original 3000 miles Eagle GT+4s off my low miler about 10 years ago (Been mounted on the car 25 years old at the time), that were starting to leak air and had cracked sidewalls, and dismounted the tires and put them on my daily driver's rims and they handled amazing. Better than medium grade tires I buy from tire rack or discount tires. Wore them until they were in need of replacement. Due to the gradual air leak I had to add air every two weeks to the rears but no issues whatsoever. Nothing scary as described by naysayers above.

I probably wouldn't buy similar tires unless they were for a show car but I wouldn't hesitate to use them up on a daily driver if I had a set lying around and didn't mind topping off the air. Only problem with getting them for a show car is the cracked sidewalls would kind of detract from the mint car.