Autocross coaching (Page 1/2)
burtman APR 28, 07:34 PM
Let me start by stating I want yall to treat me like I am the most uneducated inbred human you have met.

I've been taking my '86 SE to autocross events and really learning quick. It's very intuitive and I believe a can of worms has been opened. I don't expect to be nationally recognized but I do plan to dump my heart into being known as the fool that will be whipping our sexy rig around some orange cones with grace and elegance.

Poking around the forum, no one is fond of improving/adding sway bars. I have ordered vette breaks to do an upgrade which is needed and I think I will appreciate, and WILL be doing a 3800 swap once I have more experience. My fear is running the rig till I feel confident and re-learning new power with a different motor.

I'm looking for as much grass roots advice you all have to offer for skill, upgrades, and negatives of this passion.

Thank you in advance and I'll try my best to respond and document my journey if any of yall care

Thanks in advance!
olejoedad APR 28, 07:52 PM
The Fiero Store heavy duty front and rear sway bar set will make the car more neutral in handling.

I used them with Eibachs, GA brakes and KYB's on my 86 SE.

With cheap stock tires my times were mid-pack with the race prepped Corvettes.
Patrick APR 28, 09:57 PM

quote
Originally posted by burtman:

Let me start by stating I want yall to treat me like I am the most uneducated inbred human you have met.



Okay, first of all... learn how to take a photo (and upload it) properly with your phone! That photo you posted is an embarrassment. Why are you taking a shot of your car at an autocross event in portrait orientation? For gawd's sake, turn your phone on its side and shoot in landscape orientation. And that applies doubly to shooting video! (EDIT: Actually, your photo looks like it might've been shot in proper landscape orientation, but is being presented in portrait mode, which looks even more bizarre!)

How am I doing so far?


quote
Originally posted by burtman:

Poking around the forum, no one is fond of improving/adding sway bars.



I don't know where you got that idea from. Installing a rear sway bar is among one of the first things I'd do to an '84-'87 Fiero being used for autocross, along with adding Rodney Dickman's Zero Lash End Links on the front.


quote
Originally posted by burtman:

I have ordered vette breaks to do an upgrade which is needed and I think I will appreciate...



On the other hand, I never felt that the factory brakes were inadequate on my '84 duke or '88 Formula for autocross. Don't fall for the hype.


By the way, what was the problem with your cooling system?

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 04-28-2022).]

cvxjet APR 28, 11:56 PM
My specialty is handling and suspension. I do things a bit differently than some...and every once-in-a-while....I am right! The brakes for Autocross do not need to be big- you are only running a short course, so just some good pads will be all you need. I was reading in Grassroots Motorsports magazine about the champ Miata racer and he had drilled so many holes in his disks they looked like swiss-cheese....Lighter made his car faster- and he suffered no brake weakness.

Lightness in wheels, tires and disc rotors will improve performance. I switched wheels and tires, dropping 3 lbs off each rear corner and 6 off each front- made a huge difference- not only performance but feel.

One of the best upgrades is swapping in the 88 rear suspension- it is properly designed, rides and handles better and the subframe mounts solidly so acts as a reinforcement for the chassis.

I came up with some odd ideas on mounting stabilizer bars, and did a post on them; https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/140674.html
SKJSS APR 29, 06:52 AM

quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:


With cheap stock tires my times were mid-pack with the race prepped Corvettes.



Intended as a compliment towards you....that is a function of driver skill and not car ability. A properly driven and properly prepped 'Vette would absolutely stomp a Fiero on cheap stock tires, presuming the driver is the same.

OP, I'm thrilled to hear how much you love Autox. It's a fabulous, inexpensive and low risk way to get into competition. I autox'd from '98 to '05 or so. The car I learned in was an AW11 MR2, and my instructor (who took a liking to me, rest his soul...he passed away years ago) had a Fiero GT...I forget what year. A few things come to mind. First, I agree with others that you don't need to worry about your brakes. As long as they are "good", you're good. You don't build up enough speed and/or heat to really need high end stuff. Especially with a car as light as a Fiero. Second, in my opinion...While you are still learning and refining your skills, do NOT get yourself a set of sticky gumballs. They will allow you to get away with bad habits. Use decent street/high performance tires and learn to feel the car break away and do different things as you approach the limits. Learn how to control the car. Race tires won't teach you that. If you're going to upgrade anything, besides the drivers' skills, work on adding lightness and improving the suspension. That's the most bang for your buck. I haven't driven a 3800 swap car, though I desperately would love to find and buy one. I presume it'll change some characteristics of the car when pushed hard, but the concepts will still be the same as what you learn now.

What's the downside to autox? To me, there is only one...and it was a HUGE one for me. The track time vs. commitment time. Running autox usually takes up the better portion of a day. Drive to the track, track walk, grid, race, work, pack up, go home. I would leave the house at 7am and come home at 3pm...or later. I would get maybe 5 runs in, at 45 to 60 seconds each. Therefore, I spent 8 hours of my time for 5 minutes of track time. Yeah, autox is cheap financially, but the time investment wasn't worth it to me any longer. Of course, having said that, I'm about to dive back into it at least a little bit with my 18 year old son who is dying to race.
hyperv6 APR 29, 08:22 AM
Here is what I learned when I autocrossed.

#1 the thing that you can improve the best at is you not the car. Learn to drive the car and find what it will give you and not give you and adjust your driving to the car.

#2 Sometimes you have to go slower to make a faster run. Don't Over Drive the Car.

#3 Build the car to a class you can be competitive in. There are different classes and different things you can do in that class. Learn what mods are permitted and find a class to build the car to. You may find a totally stock class may be best or another withs specific mods.

#4 Sway bars help make the car neutral but use care as not ever combo for the Fiero out there is right. Just by adding a rear bar may not always be a perfect fit.
I am using the rare Herb Adams VSE bars on my car. He is the father of the Trans Am. It uses a 1" front bar and 1.5 rear bar. The car is very neutral. This set was used in showroom stock racing.

#5 brakes will be fine for now. Don't get crazy on the pads as you want them good cold as your runs are short and you sit between runs. You do not want to go into the first turn with brakes that need heat to work.

I ran a Sonoma Truck and out ran cars with mods so you do not have to get modification crazy to start. This is a fun event and you can learn much working with others there as most will help you much to get started. Make friends at the track and enjoy.

Also the Fiero will do well here but with no bars be ready for the under steer and bump steer should not be an issue as parking lots are smooth.
da.slyboy MAY 02, 12:28 PM
I agree on the comments for unsprung weight and shedding some pounds on the car. That being said, if making the car a full autox car, perhaps a lighter engine choice would be preferred (since you would be in a mod class anyway).
Jay-ID MAY 02, 03:16 PM
Burtman, so you were the Fiero racing on 4/23! I raced on 4/24 and several people asked me if I knew you. I'll send you a PM with my contact info; hopefully we can race on the same day this summer.

I agree with a lot of the feedback already given. An older autocrosser once told me the priorities:
1. Seat time (experience)
2. Tires
3. Suspension
4. Power
His point was don't bother with 3 & 4 until you've invested in 1 & 2. I've been doing autocross since 2016 with an 88 3800sc. I am glad I started on crap tires. Seat time is still my priority.

I have some Fiero-specific advise that I think extends beyond 88s:
- When upgrading tires, don't go too big too fast. I went to a 255 rear. You won't need all that traction, the unsprung weight is a penalty, and wheel bearings will suffer.
- An early obstacle is reducing understeer. Tire widths and pressures can help but I ended up going with a heavier rear sway bar.
- Fieros are hard to make competitive. I get skunked by Miatas, MR2 Spyders, and Corvettes. However, racing a Fiero is a lot of fun.
- Lift-off oversteer can lead to a quick spin, even with wide rear tires. The note I wrote down from someone wiser is “Trail brake entering the corner to get more weight on the front end, and never get totally off the throttle when turning.” I'm still working on that.

Good luck and I'll be in contact!
cvxjet MAY 02, 05:20 PM
Jay-ID....Good stuff...Check out my stabilizer bar mounting theories in the link above; I improved turn-in and cut back on the DTO.

As for controlling DTO- I used to drive home from NAS Alameda to San Leandro- getting off the freeway at Marina Blvd....270* off-ramp turn....But it tightened at one point, so I would drift through the turn and at the tightening, instead of turning the wheel I would cut the throttle and the car would turn more. It is now second-nature...I actually almost don't "Notice" DTO because I am so used to it...But with my new stab-bar mounting, it is so mild as to be almost non-existent.

Practice experiencing DTO and controlling it. Remember that the main solution is to get back on the throttle (But not too much)
burtman MAY 02, 05:35 PM

quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

On the other hand, I never felt that the factory brakes were inadequate on my '84 duke or '88 Formula for autocross. Don't fall for the hype.


By the way, what was the problem with your cooling system?





Id say you did exactly what I asked for haha. Appreciate the feedback Patrick and for letting me pester you via e-mail. Ill chalk up your advice to another learning moment for me, considering the engagement I've received on this topic. I even ended up connecting with a local it seems! I see several individuals have reached out to you on some autocross topics and look forward to digging into your experience.

I ended up having a pinhole leak on a bottom part of the radiator that I just replaced, all the excess fluid was catching in a lip on the bottom when I wasn't driving. I ended up replacing the radiator again which is how I found the hole. No issues to date!