Reviving Rodney Dickman's Fastest Window motor upgrads (Page 1/3)
Trinten JAN 06, 03:02 PM
Hi everyone,

Years ago, FieroObsessed discovered a GM truck window motor that he figured out how to fit into his Fiero, and that window motor flew. He also discovered that the tolerances in Fiero doors are so loose, that replicating his exact measurements on the other door, he had issues. He was kind enough to post up all the information, but couldn't commit to any kind of kit.

FieroGuru and Rodney Dickman collaborated and developed a kit that wasn't quite drop in (needs some small trimming on the regulator/scissor assembly, one new hole drilled and two others opened up a little -- and that's before you decide if you wanted to use J-nuts or weld on nuts).

Rodney, always looking to bring us a quality product, would only use NOS GM window motors, because many of the aftermarket groups don't want to pay for the QA/QC to get quality parts from China.

So he talked to some vendors and he bought 30(?) or so sets of GM NOS motors - which was all they had. He then went through a few revisions of his adapter plates, did testing with a few members here as well as with FieroGuru. Then he was selling these kits for about 250 bucks for a pair, with some optional pieces for mounting if you didn't have or know a welder.

Last year, I reached out to him and asked him if I could purchase any remaining materials, notes, etc and the right to continue to produce these units. He said yes. So I've been going over his notes, looking at costs, and sourcing materials.

All in all, part of what I received is 21 sets of adapter plates, in addition to fasteners, paperwork, jigs for modifying the plates and the motors, etc.

Here is the state of things today

I found a source that still had an abundance of NOS motors.... for one side. I have a large quantity of them on the way. They don't have any from the other side. I'm still looking, and have found a few single ones here-and-there, paying a premium price for them.

I am talking with vendors that have after market motors for the other side, giving them my list of requirements (minimum 1 year warranty, all metal housing -- which is necessary for this to work -- and the correct plug and plug orientation). I have some promising options, and ordered a few for me to poke at.

The company that Rodney sourced the pigtail extension from is gone. All other outlets for it that I found wanted 6 times more than his original cost. So I reached out to the manufacturer, setup an account with them, set up a shipping account, and put in an order. Lead time is unfortunately about 7 weeks.

I am also working with someone on the price to produce more adapters, and exploring ways to make them more efficiently without dramatically increasing cost. Rodney was doing a lot of welding and drill press work on these, I want to avoid that.

"Trinten, get to the point!" the masses yelled

The point is I have two viable options.

1) I can get enough material to assemble and sell the kits using materials Rodney provided (21 sets), with full disclosure that one side will be a Chinese motor, but will still have a 1 year warranty that I will honor for the original unit. I can do this as a "one and done", and price them slightly less than what Rodney was selling them for, break even for time and materials and enough to have a nice dinner, and that's it. These go into the ether. It'd be $225 plus shipping.

2) Once I get pricing on producing more adapter plates, I can update this thread on what that price would be to make this a sustainable operation. I don't know what that will do to the price yet. I'm going to have a talk with the machinist tonight and kick around some ideas. He originally pitched the idea of making it out of a single chunk of aluminum or steel, but that would generate a tremendous amount of material waste (because of the tall stand-offs that it uses for mounting), which would have pushed the cost of the setup well past 300. I made it clear that I'd like to find options to keep costs low, but also eliminate some of the secondary work that Rodney was doing on them.
When that pricing is figured out, I'll post what the cost per set will be if we want to make this sustainably.

Ultimately, it's going to be what the community wants. I would hope there's enough demand to go the second route, but I also recall a few people commenting that Rodney's original asking price was kind of steep, and the cost of materials has only gone up since then.

If you are interested in getting a set, please post here and let me know if you'd be willing to pay more than 225 for a set, so I can gauge interest and know how many (if any) more adapters I should have made.

This thread is a way for me to get an idea of interest in the community for this product, and will help guide how I'm going to approach this. If you've read all of this, then I thank you for your time.


Wichita JAN 06, 10:00 PM
This maybe more of a logistics thing, and it seems like you have already committed at least a group purchase of the motors.

But wouldn't it be easier just to sell the adapter kits, and have everyone source or buy the Chinese made motors themselves? That way you are t responsible for the motors, reduces your cost, and simplifies your offering.

Trinten JAN 06, 10:29 PM
It's a fair question and one I have considered. There are two issues. One minor, one major.

1. There are a lot of variances in motor housing design from the donor vehicle. Things that work fine in those trucks won't work with the adapter. I could give requirements, and people could likely find matching criteria.

2. The flanges on the motor need to be tapped (threaded). If this is not done dead square, it may not bolt to the adapter plate correctly, and drilling/retapping to correct it may cause unwanted slop, or worse, weaken the flange enough that it breaks from torquing forces. I don't know how likely this is, and I don't want someone to find out the hard way and wind up needing to replace glass.

So if I do make the adapters to sell them direct, it would have to be a "no refunds/guarantees" thing. As mentioned, it's not a drop-in adapter. It is an option I'll keep in mind!
LornesGT JAN 07, 11:49 AM
I am interested. Mine are slower than molasses. I am ready to purchase now at your 225 price but would pay more.
Trinten JAN 07, 10:31 PM
Thanks Lorne,

Talking with Rodney, FieroGuru, and the machinist, we've got some ideas we're exploring.

The next few weeks, as the machinist has time, he'll be picking up some blanks and trying out some things with producing the adapters, tracking his time/materials costs for me (so paying for R&D, but if we can get a less costly product without sacrificing quality, that's a good thing, it will help with pricing).

I've got to order some materials to ship to him. The upside is we've got some time to explore these options, as I've got that lead-time to wait out for the pigtail extensions.

I'll keep everyone posted once we've explored these ideas. I don't know how long it'll take for the machinist to run through these ideas, even though he is being compensated, this is obviously not a big job for him (yet. Hopefully).
Mike in Sydney JAN 07, 10:42 PM
Trinten, check your PMs.
marc-alan JAN 08, 11:50 AM
Count me in for a set
theogre JAN 08, 02:42 PM
⚠️ Warning: Changing or "upgrading" the motors is often not fixing your problem when windows or other things are slow to operate. "Dead" motors are a side effect of true cause of slow operation.

Iffy wiring, switches, and window mechanical can cause slow opening closing or both. Examples:

● Not just Fiero has full power to the motors going thru the switches and anything causing resistance will slow the motor.
Burn switches etc just adds way more resistance until they die but every joint adds some resistance even when new.
Just look @ heater blower and resistor pack that often have 1 or more resistors < 1Ω, even the Highest resistor is often < 2Ω, all majorly affecting blower speed.
That's ignoring other iffy power, ground or both covered my Cave, Electric Motors

● Window Rollers, counter weight spring, and more can bind and slow operation.
Rollers shrink on the ball over time and won't roll right even when you re-lube them. Often people use wrong grease here and make problems worse.
Big spring gets rust and dirt in the coil causing binding too. Is there to counter weight the glass so the crank doesn't see a big load on the end of the arms. If that the spring fails completely, hand crank or power motor will not raise the glass for even small windows and often break other parts.

So you change to NOS GM motors or anything else and do not fix the rest then the new motors can quickly have same problems too.
Because Low volts and Mech problems can quickly "eat" the brushes and coils in the new motor because motors pulls way more Amps to do its job.

Side Note: Avoid using PW when engine off for same reason. Battery Only you get < volts @ ~ 12.6 full charge vs. Engine and thus Alt Running that putting out 14-15 volts. Because many miss that After power passes thru all connections the motor gets 0.5 to 1 volt less then battery or alt output @ best.
HL and other heavy power users have same issue. Put a volt meter across HL Bulb to see this easy. If have iffy HL switches, crap grounds, etc then HL Bulbs can see 11 volt or less w/ alt pushing 14+ volts. (HL bulb plugged into the socket to read volt between black and color wires.)

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 01-08-2023).]

Trinten JAN 08, 03:26 PM
Thanks Ogre,

I'm sure many of us, especially those that have been here for more than 10 years, have read all of the very many threads on how to adjust dew wipes, replace assist springs, clear and properly lube tracks, etc.

Unfortunately, that doesn't always fix the issue. And to your point on power, Rodney even had/has a relay upgrade kit, to deal with cases where insufficient power was traveling through corroding connections in the switch.

I know I went through everything on my last Fiero. Even CowsPatoot had found some GM Tech article on what position to put the window in when adjusting things to ensure proper operation. I think many of us have.

The nice part about this setup, is it should be done with the regulator assembly removed (I honestly don't see how it could be done without taking it out), and I think anyone with the knowledge and ability to put this setup in is going to know to clean and lubricate everything properly, and adjust dew wipe tension. I actually think those items were part of Rodney's original instructions that he included with the setup. Anyone that gets into modifying their cars, they usually know they are accepting some form of risk, no matter how minor.

Thank you for the effort you've put into amassing knowledge and organizing it on your site. It is an excellent reference for people that are looking to keep their Fiero stock.
Trinten JAN 30, 07:54 PM
Quick update.

The pigtail extensions that Rodney used were ordered a few weeks ago. I'm expecting them to be at my door in late March/early April.

I've also had some chats with FieroGuru, and since this kit is installed on the window regulator while it's out of the car, we couldn't think of a reason why the 20mm spacers need to be welded on. This will save labor time, which is an opportunity to reduce the pricing.

I've also found a source on bulk stainless steel spacers, the order is in, now I just need to see if they deliver on time and if the quality is good.

The machinist that is working on the adapter plates has everything he needed to update the design to compensate for the minor difference on the back of the motor. The short spacers that Rodney was welding on will be part of the raw material. These could also just be put on as the spacers, and screwed into place when I do the assembly of the motors/adapters and modification of the motors, but if the cost difference between it being part of the adapter versus buying the washers and fitting everything together is a wash, then we'll just keep it as part of the adapter. This is a wait-and-see once he cranks out a few test pieces and gives me the final materials/labor cost.

Assuming they are ready in time, I'll bring some sets to Carlisle and to the 40th. Save on shipping!

Stay tuned!