A not-so-often mentioned nail in the Fiero's coffin. (Page 1/1)
Raydar FEB 22, 10:20 AM
Short story... GM was looking at a FWD F-Body (ala "Ford Probe") that would have shared the Fiero's assembly line.
As we all know, it didn't happen.

https://www.hagerty.com/med...e-camaro-that-wasnt/

Patrick FEB 22, 07:51 PM

Interesting! Thanks for posting.
hyperv6 FEB 22, 08:06 PM
This is a story I have shared for years yet many still have never heard about it.

This was the excuse Chevy needed to show the Fiero plant was under capacity once this was canceled.
It is why the car died.

The maroon car shown here is not the GM 80 but an early 4th Gen Fbody that took the Fiero GT styling and adapted it to their new model. Joh Shinella stated it was too good to throw away.

Just another reason we need a book on the Fiero that tells the whole and true story.
Raydar FEB 23, 09:20 PM

quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:

This is a story I have shared for years yet many still have never heard about it.
...

The maroon car shown here is not the GM 80 but an early 4th Gen Fbody that took the Fiero GT styling and adapted it to their new model. Joh Shinella stated it was too good to throw away.




Not surprising about the car in the pic. I have seen several other GM80 pics. The cars were... awkward, to be polite about it.

I've heard this story several times, but it keeps getting overlooked in all of the recent articles that seem to have popped up. And most of the older articles, as well.
They can say what they want about sales numbers, and competition for the Corvette. I believe that if the GM80 had happened, it would have justified an extended lifespan for the Fiero. At least until Chevy bitched some more.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 02-23-2023).]

hyperv6 FEB 24, 03:32 PM

quote
Originally posted by Raydar:


Not surprising about the car in the pic. I have seen several other GM80 pics. The cars were... awkward, to be polite about it.

I've heard this story several times, but it keeps getting overlooked in all of the recent articles that seem to have popped up. And most of the older articles, as well.
They can say what they want about sales numbers, and competition for the Corvette. I believe that if the GM80 had happened, it would have justified an extended lifespan for the Fiero. At least until Chevy bitched some more.




If the GM 80 had happened I e pd t the 90 models would have appeared. But here is the major issue one of the Fiero team pointed out to me.

2 seat cars are a limited model. Most last about 8 years. Only the Corvette and Miata have bucked that trend. The RX7, Nissan 280z,, 300z, RX8, MR2 twice and more have lasted less than ten years for the most part.

The Fiero team hoped to get the second Gen in but really was not counting on a third Gen. Money was tight at GM.

The Fiero did its job and bought them time and brought buyers to the show room that bought other Pontiacs with more than two seats.

What many forget is Pontiac lost the 400 in 79, was stuck with a crappy 301 that was not powerful. The large Bonneville was killed for the Lemans rebadged as a Bonneville. These moves were to shut the division down. But the Pontiac folks fought back.

The GM 80 was hated by the engineers as it was part of the move to make all but the trucks and Corvette FWD.

Even in the early 80’s Chevy was told to lose the V8. They saved it but the Vette folks did a twin 2.8 V6 Citation to test for a fuel engine Corvette. The car today is in private hands.

The Fiero concept of a mid engine V6 was really developed at the tech center in the 70’s as a proposal to Chevy. They rejected it. Hulki was looking to lower the cowl of the Fiero and was offered the Tech center proposal. He picked up and ran with it.

I have drawings of two mid engine Corvettes from GM in the 80’s one is a Rotory and the other is a 454 transverse engine. Both sport space frames much like the Fiero.

The reason things were seldom exposed on the Fiero death is there were many bad feelings inside GM and the same with the UAW as Pontiac had cut deals that went down the drain.

I was in Pontiac when the 90 GT was to be shown and Middlebrook was ordered not to show the car by GM. John Shinella saved the day with phots at the banquet. They then quietly showed up, later in a magazine.

John Schinella was the greatest cheerleader of the Fiero that the program had. Many fuss over Hulki but John was there from the start till the end fighting for the car.

I think some of this new info may have happened due to me pushing in a post at the Hagerty Site. The Fiero came up and Gary Witzenburg posted. I told him it was time to print the parts of the story GM would not let in his book.

Gary worked for GM as did his wife. The books he wrote were good but only gave GM approved info. The dirt from the Fiero never got printed so we only got half the story.

This was just about two months ago and now Gary and John contributed to the Car and Driver story.

Bits about Porsche being involved with the new suspension was not spoke of directly. Gary’s book talks about the Porsche Killer tail lights being removed as GM was doing work with Porsche Engineering. Well it was Pontiac and the Fiero team in 1985 that were doing it. Chevy was racing Porsche in show room stock at the same time.

Tom Goad the Pontiac suspension engineer told High Performance Pontiac that GM designed the suspension and that Porsche engineering was brought in to tune the turn in and on center feel.

I suspect Pontiac let the Lotus lie go on because Porsche being at GM would have not gone well with Chevy. Porsche was buying Corvettes and tearing them down trying to find a way to beat them. They never did.

We really need a book to document this and John Schinella to open up on all he can share. Fred has a lot of info now but we need to get this down before these people are gone.
Patrick FEB 24, 05:05 PM

quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:

We really need a book to document this and John Schinella to open up on all he can share. Fred has a lot of info now but we need to get this down before these people are gone.



Your whole post was quite interesting... but just for clarification, who's Fred?
hyperv6 FEB 24, 05:39 PM

quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Your whole post was quite interesting... but just for clarification, who's Fred?



Bartemeyer Fiero Fred.
Patrick FEB 24, 05:46 PM

Okay, thanks!
Raydar FEB 24, 09:29 PM

quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:
John Schinella was the greatest cheerleader of the Fiero that the program had. Many fuss over Hulki but John was there from the start till the end fighting for the car.

I think some of this new info may have happened due to me pushing in a post at the Hagerty Site. The Fiero came up and Gary Witzenburg posted. I told him it was time to print the parts of the story GM would not let in his book.

Gary worked for GM as did his wife. The books he wrote were good but only gave GM approved info. The dirt from the Fiero never got printed so we only got half the story.

This was just about two months ago and now Gary and John contributed to the Car and Driver story.




Are you talking about the recent Car and Driver story?
I didn't think there was anything new, there. At least not new to me. But what I found interesting is that C&D didn't do their usual Fiero "hatchet job". It was quite straightforward.