Fieros... "never meant to do this..." (Page 1/3)
82-T/A [At Work] JAN 15, 07:47 PM
I got sucked into a bunch of YouTube videos of people modifying and racing / testing Fieros on the track. I noticed a common theme.

I guess I'm at that age now where I'm realizing that I'm not young anymore, and everyone my age is now more or less considered "old" (I'm in my mid 40s). By that token, many of the hosts of a lot of these shows are in their 20s and 30s, and never grew up with Fieros. To be fair... I was not old enough to drive a car until at least 6 years after the last Fiero rolled off the assembly line.

But it seems to me that a lot of people have a much different perspective of cars today. In almost every one of the videos, people say things like... "The Fiero, which was a horrible handling car... has been tuned to actually handle well." or something to the effect of... "The Fiero, which could barely get out of its own way, can now compete with real sports cars."

Kinda irks me, but also makes me realize that people just don't get it.

My automatic stock 1987 Fiero SE / V6 back in the 90s could out-handle and out-accelerate most of the cars from the same time. Mazda RX-7... no problem. Datsun / Nissan 280ZX Turbo... no problem. It was a decent handling and accelerating car at the time. But I guess people don't really have the same perspective of what "the time" was like. Everything was just kinda slow. I'm surprised to hear people say it doesn't handle well...

I'm guessing in all these shows, they don't know any better since the one in these videos is the first one they've ever driven, and it's been "tuned" as they say... but they have nothing to compare it to except perhaps an Acura NSX or whatever else.
sdgdf JAN 15, 08:35 PM
These people can't help but happen to have a modern perspective on cars, and these days a Fiero has old (70's/80s) technology. It doesn't help that the 84-87 had cobbled-together suspension from other GM economy cars. So generally these days, they're not known to have excellent handling or speed in their stock form. I find it cool that people are getting into them at all. You'd also have to expect that they regard them in the same boat as the 80s Firebird and Camaro which aren't regarded to handle that well. A lot of people don't value the mid-engine thing at all either. Back in the day before electronic gadgetry correcting issues with cars handling you needed a mid-engine layout, or rear-engine to have a serious sports car.

At the time, it just coming with 4-wheel disc was something. Fuel injection, same thing. I recently saw a YT video about the 1980 Turbo Trans Am and the speed numbers in the video surprised me....8.x something 0-60, 17 seconds in the 1/4 mile. Top speed of like 115. The V6 Fiero when it came out, was faster in a straight line than the top-tier Trans Am from 5 years before. That from a small V6 with 100 less hp and almost 200 less lb/ft. Combine that with the 4-wheel disc brakes and the control-arm suspension on the Fiero and you had a serious car back then.

The stock Fiero will always be plagued with the malaise-era engineering it was born from though, which the iron duke definitely came from. V8s that produced around 150 hp. That doesn't lead to much respect these days, where you've got stock 4-cylinder engines up in the 300's.

On tail of the dragon this past fall I got a lot of respect from a Honda and Mustang guy who chased me on it. With my tires, brake upgrades, and 3800SC and the overall rest of its design it does very well up against modern cars.

I wouldn't say its just the Fiero either. Take a X1/9, they aren't going to get much respect either. Or even a mkI MR2. We're getting into territory with modern cars now that the golden-age 90s Japanese sports cars will be in that boat soon. I don't like all the electronic handling tech these days but its mattering a lot to a lot of people. I like Fieros because my ideal exotic car wouldn't be a newer Ferrari/etc at all, but one of the older ones that was pure driving with no assists.

[This message has been edited by sdgdf (edited 01-15-2024).]

fliphone JAN 15, 10:19 PM
Happy to say they're still some of us kidos who appreciate the spirit of 80's cars. Here's a couple pics of me and one of my friends in his AW11 (if i don't call it by its "real" name he'll kill me). We've got hundreds of miles of back roads chasing each other blasting 80s/90s music



------------------
Black 88 GT, a 19 year old here about 20 years to late
- Running(?) LQ1 Swap-

1985 Fiero GT JAN 15, 10:28 PM
The are definitely still some young people getting into Fieros that are happy with them to start with, me for example, 18,
Many of these shows start of with a bad Fiero to start with, mushy bushings, blown shocks, and the stock engine down on power, with a slightly less grippy clutch, it makes a huge difference,
My dad has an 86 Fiero SE with 200,000km on it, my 85gt has 140,000km on it, his engine is more tired, clutch has... very smooth engagement (not quite to the point of slipping), original rear shocks, 7/8 of the bushings are original, still uses motor oil in the 4 speed, and the interior insulation has been upgraded, all of that leads to almost a soothing ride, not enough power to even chirp the tires, and not enough clutch to do that if there was enough power, ride is somewhat mushy and "comfortable" but the rear end feels more twitchy from that, everything is just slower, and less precise.
In comparison, my Fiero has all new poly suspension/dogbone bushings, new kyb/Monroe shocks, very noticeably more power and the clutch has much more "bite", synchromesh fluid, and it goes, even with the addition of a rear (OEM front) swaybar, it is less rear end twitchy then my dad's with original bushings, and handles really really well, and it accelerated like it was new, getting 7.6 seconds 0-60(mph), which was comparable with the magazine testing back in the day, in the spring it can only be even better, as I have installed aluminum cradle bushings, ported the exhaust manifolds, installed new shifter cables and replaced all the shifter linkage bushings, MSD coil, red Taylor plug wires, and painted the intake, valve cover, exhaust from manifolds to muffler inlet (but Silver color ceramic manifold paint) engine bay is looking like new, and it should drive/handle better then new, even though "new"is still way way better then "current original status".
cvxjet JAN 15, 11:20 PM
It seems that most people in CA must read ONLY Car & Drivel magazine....Back in the 80s C&D was very anti-US Cars...David E. Davis (Head Editor) was called on the carpet for an editorial where he said positive things about the new Lincoln MK 7....a few months later he left C&D and started Automobile magazine. C&D bombed on the Fiero like there was no tomorrow...

The 1985 GT tests in MT and R&T were very positive- that is what caused me to buy my 85 SE V6...after that most reviews were negative- only really positive one was a 87 GT test in the R&T special....https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/099448.html

Here is a list of Fiero performance and the performance specs for comparable cars in the 80s

[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 01-15-2024).]

1985 Fiero GT JAN 15, 11:38 PM

quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:

It seems that most people in CA must read ONLY Car & Drivel magazine....Back in the 80s C&D was very anti-US Cars...David E. Davis (Head Editor) was called on the carpet for an editorial where he said positive things about the new Lincoln MK 7....a few months later he left C&D and started Automobile magazine. C&D bombed on the Fiero like there was no tomorrow...

The 1985 GT tests in MT and R&T were very positive- that is what caused me to buy my 85 SE V6...after that most reviews were negative- only really positive one was a 87 GT test in the R&T special....https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/099448.html

Here is a list of Fiero performance and the performance specs for comparable cars in the 80s






CA As in California, or CA As in Canada? Pretty impressive that with good transmission fluid and modern tires, my 85 gt can get 7.6 seconds, they are really long lasting cars, when maintained well.
cvxjet JAN 16, 02:14 AM
Cali-Forni-A....Lived here most of my life...N.CA is all forest, mountains and small towns- and most importantly, windy back-roads...

My 85 SE V6 w/manual was very quick in stock form; I had basically no other option (No A/C, or power anything) car weighed 2580- basically, 150 lbs less than the GTs they were testing in the magazines.

My favorite driving experience is windy back-roads...I can stay with many much "faster" cars on backroads.

Now my Fiero has the 3.4 F-body long-block conversion, and Getrag 5 spd....plus some odd tuning of the suspension so it has much better than stock turn-in...and is basically neutral all the time. I also did some body mods...
css9450 JAN 16, 09:05 AM
I remember back when I was a new driver, I had a six-cylinder Nova, and then another six-cylinder Nova after that one. At some point, my dad had a Citation for a few years, and it had the Iron Duke. The first time I drove it, I thought it was the fastest car I'd ever driven! LOL I am sure that opinion was short-lived! But it shows how low the bar was at the time.
lou_dias JAN 16, 11:20 AM
Relocating the rear tie-rod mounting point to be move in-line with the movement of the control arm makes the pre-88's handle like an 88.
At that point, the 88's only big advantage is turn radius but at the sacrifice of front-end grip.

Hence the best handling Fiero is a pre-88 with an 88 cradle swap...if you're looking for bolt-on upgrades...

RCC's solution was to off-set the mount by ~4" and give you a shorter tie rod.

Rayne/Held/Arraut's solution was to sell you a custom arm with the tie-rod built into it.

I've raced Fiero's with all combinations on an oval track:
stock pre-88
stock 88
and the 3 conversions above...

[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 01-16-2024).]

bergertime JAN 16, 12:44 PM
I was just thinking about this yesterday. I went from an 81 mazda 626 5-spd, to a 1979 Datsun 200SX 5-spd to a 1985 Fiero 2m4 5Spd, to an 88 Conquest TSI, to a 92 Probe GT then I moved on to Jeeps and Broncos. I now have an 08 Sky Redline and 04 MazdaSpeed Miata and a Civic SI...along with one of my favorite to drive 88 Fiero GT 5-SPD CJB. My Fiero is completly stock and it's the most fun to drive car I have, sure the Sky is much faster and I miss the 6th gear in the Fiero that I have in the Miata and SI, I actually tried to shift the Fiero into 6th gear the other day, lol. But as far as going out for a cruise, the sitting position, the engine behind you, the fiero is the most fun. I just need to change the blinker sound as both my teenage boys think the blinker makes the most ridiculous noise ever. I guess you have the old ones who love the Fiero for what it was and you have the younger crowd who love it for what it could be. There are 2 very distinct crowds.