Water pump Replacement advice? (Page 1/5)
Kitskaboodle MAY 13, 03:45 PM
Just yesterday, my water pump on my 85 GT started making squealing noises. I grabbed the pulley and sure enough I could feel bearing play, ☹️
Anyways, it’s been a long time since I’ve done a V6 water pump on a Fiero. Tips/Advice?

I already have the water pump on order. (Gates brand - yes, it’s supposed to have the metal impeller) It’s supposed to have the pipe already installed, it comes with 3 threaded studs and that rectangular bracket doo-hookie thingy. (sorry, don’t remember what it’s called but I know it’s there to support the timing cover seal.
As an fyi , I typically don’t trust the thin paper gaskets that come with these aftermarket water pumps so I ordered the Fel-Pro version separately. Lastly, recommendations on gasket sealer? I have always used Permatex #2b.
Kit

[This message has been edited by Kitskaboodle (edited 05-14-2024).]

css9450 MAY 13, 05:06 PM
As you probably can remember, the job isn't difficult but it's pretty tedious. You have to get all the old gasket material and sealant off the engine while working in a tight area where you can barely see.

Most people remove the battery to gain a little room. I don't.... I manage but it's tight. Be sure also to use zip ties or something to keep any wiring harness out of the way. Some of my wire loom is missing so the wires there are kind of haphazard and they will surely get in the way as you're trying to install the new pump with sealant all over it.

There are a lot of opinions on the forum about whether or not you need to use a bracket to keep the timing cover from coming loose when you remove all the water pump bolts. Some say that is only needed on the REALLY early 2.8s (like 1980 or so) and some say you should use the bracket regardless. I don't know which is correct but it does sound like it's safer to use the bracket. Rodney sells a neat little bracket that is really easy to use because it doesn't require removal of the alternator bracket.

My car is an '88 so it came with Torx bolts on the water pump. I replaced all of those with the hex bolt kit Rodney sells, but yours being an '85 should be hex anyway. One clever thing I did on mine is to replace one of the bolts (its the one closest to the heater pipe) with a threaded stud and a couple of nuts and washers. This is the one bolt location on the water pump where there is a gap behind it, and I suppose the possibility exists that someone could overtighten that bolt and break the water pump there. I replaced that bolt with a stud, and I used one nut and washer on it to secure the timing cover, and a second nut and washer to secure the water pump. Now a) I never will have to worry about my timing cover coming loose when replacing a water pump, and b) the stud serves as a nice locating dowel for the new water pump.

Be sure to use thread sealant on the couple of bolts that need it. That should be mentioned in the instructions that came with your new water pump.
cvxjet MAY 13, 05:21 PM
CSS nailed most of the good advice on water-pump replacement on 2.8 Fieros....But I will throw a couple of more at you;

A) Be very careful with the small bolts that thread into the timing chain cover....it is very easy to strip the threads in that >>ALUMINUM<< TC cover.

B) Make sure that your replacement pump has a METAL impeller- back in 1999 I installed an F-body 3.4 block and of course installed a new water-pump- with a PLASTIC impeller.....a few months later my car overheated on the way to work in the morning- it did this twice more- always in the same spot on the freeway...Got her home by removing the thermostat so water could flow freely (And of course, this removed drag from the flow thru the impeller so it would actually spin- but at first I did not know that)

Someone who knew Fieros finally told me about the plastic impeller problem; The impeller, exposed to the warm water, expands (being plastic, it expands MORE than metal) and starts slipping on the steel shaft (Which is (basically) NOT exposed to the warm water)...
Patrick MAY 13, 05:49 PM
Lots of pertinent information in my old thread here... Where the heck is this coolant leaking from? Make sure to pay special attention to what I say (and what css9450 has said) about the clamp... before you loosen the bolts for the old water pump.


quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Speaking about the clamp, I have never seen an image anywhere on the 'net (including Pennock's) of one actually being used. Behold...this is where it goes!



And yes, you install the clamp before you loosen any water pump bolts!




quote
Originally posted by css9450:

One clever thing I did on mine is to replace one of the bolts (its the one closest to the heater pipe) with a threaded stud and a couple of nuts and washers. This is the one bolt location on the water pump where there is a gap behind it, and I suppose the possibility exists that someone could overtighten that bolt and break the water pump there. I replaced that bolt with a stud, and I used one nut and washer on it to secure the timing cover, and a second nut and washer to secure the water pump. Now a) I never will have to worry about my timing cover coming loose when replacing a water pump, and b) the stud serves as a nice locating dowel for the new water pump.



Good idea. Great minds think alike.


quote
Originally posted by Patrick Here:

What is the purpose of the gap that I've indicated with a question mark? Shouldn't there at least be a stud with a nut on it used to hold down the timing cover below the water pump at that location?



[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-13-2024).]

Cliff Pennock MAY 13, 05:53 PM
Also, take a look at this thread.
82-T/A [At Work] MAY 13, 07:56 PM

Kits... I noticed you said you need it to have the pipe installed. Can I ask, why DO you want that pipe on there? For a Fiero, I've only ever replaced the water pump on an 87 V6... and it didn't use the pipe. I had to remove it with some vice grips and install the plug from my original. There was a factory way of connecting to the heater hoses, and that wasn't it. I did own a 1985 Fiero GT 4-Speed, and a couple of 86 SE V6s, but never changed the water pump on them. Was that tube factory for some of the years?



quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:

Make sure that your replacement pump has a METAL impeller- back in 1999 I installed an F-body 3.4 block and of course installed a new water-pump- with a PLASTIC impeller.....a few months later my car overheated on the way to work in the morning- it did this twice more- always in the same spot on the freeway...Got her home by removing the thermostat so water could flow freely (And of course, this removed drag from the flow thru the impeller so it would actually spin- but at first I did not know that).



This same thing happened to me... unfortunately, it was on my 2.8 V6/60... original motor, had about 120k miles on it... impeller slipped and the thing overheated something fierce. I developed a rod knock, and had to completely rebuild my engine... which I did, and then I wiped a cam lobe after 3,000 miles.
Patrick MAY 13, 08:00 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

Was that tube factory for some of the years?



Yes.
css9450 MAY 13, 09:19 PM
I think 85-86 used the heater pipe, and 87-88 did not. The changeover may not have been that exact though.

Next time I see a really old 2.8 in a junkyard or wherever, like in a Citation or something, I'll look and see if there is a nut there or something. Been a awhile since I've seen one though.
Kitskaboodle MAY 13, 10:12 PM
My 85 GT has the heater pipe.
Thanks everyone for all the info. I like the idea about placing the new water pump on top of some cardboard, tracing around the outside and also the holes and marking them with numbers. (and cutting out the holes in the cardboard and putting the water pump bolts in the cardboard one at a time as they are removed) By the way, I have always had good luck using fine sandpaper, Scotch Brite and single edge razor blades to clean the mating surfaces.
Lastly, I used a ground down spacer that fit snuggly between the water pump and the block. That way, it supports the water pump flange from collapsing where that gap is at the top of the pump. Anybody ever try this?
Kit

[This message has been edited by Kitskaboodle (edited 05-13-2024).]

CoolBlue87GT MAY 14, 09:23 AM
Here's a link from when I replaced my water pump. Best advice, get a piece of cardboard, trace the outline of the new water pump. Poke the holes through. As you remove each bolt, place it in the cardboard in the correct place. This will help from guessing where the heck did this bolt come from when reassembling.

Link: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/...21-2-081914.html#p11

Good luck.