Gauging Interest - 1988 13in Brembo Upgrade - Front (Page 1/1)
fieroguru SEP 07, 10:33 PM
In 2011, my 13" brake kit for the 88 Fiero was developed.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/087368.html

Ever since then I have been looking for a caliper upgrade that was a hydraulic match for the 88 Fiero caliper. The reason it needed to be a hydraulic match was so it could be installed in place of the 88 Fiero caliper w/o changing the brake bias or needing the master cylinder (and other proportioning parts). Basically an upgrade that could compliment my current 88 brake upgrade or be paired with a 12" rear upgrade using the stock 88 Fiero rear brake calipers.

In 2021 the Brembo caliper that is a hydraulic match was located, but it took till March 2024 to finalize the fitment to the stock 88 front knuckle, with a matching rotor that is interference free. During this time, also located a supplier for 2 piece rotor solution with custom center hats with the 5x100 wheel pattern.

Here is the caliper installed with a standard drilled/slotted rotor:


Here is the caliper installed with the 2 piece rotor and behind a 17" wheel:






So the downsides....
Cost - the reusing of stock 88 fiero calipers kept the cost of the original 13" brake kit very economical. Buying new brembo calipers costs more than the original 13" full kit.
1 piece front rotors are 1" thick and weight about 18.5 lbs (about 2 lbs heavier than the 0.8" rotors on the current 13" kit).
2 piece front rotors are 1" thick and weight 15.5 lbs, but cost as much as the brembo calipers.
This caliper does not have the same bolt pattern as the 88 Fiero caliper, so it must be used on larger rotor setups with a caliper bracket.

Ball park pricing - this is a front only kit with all brand new parts
  • $495 Shipped in the US - Hardware only - no calipers or rotors (likely will be a year before offered - there is a modification that is needed on the calipers and not sure everyone will be able to complete).
  • $1,695 Shipped in the US - Front kit with new Brembo calipers and 1 piece drilled/slotted rotors.
  • $2,495 Shipped in the US - Front kit with new Brembo calipers and 2 piece drilled/slotted rotors.


Stock these calipers come in red.
While I changed the color to blue for my setup, that will not be an option.

I recognize this is quite spendy and will have a limited market, but want to gauge interest to see if it is even worth doing.
So that is the question... is there any interest in this front kit?

Haven't looked at application to the 84-87...

fieroguru OCT 01, 07:04 AM
Bump back to the 1st page.
cam-a-lot OCT 01, 04:46 PM
Looks great, but any info on actual performance difference compared to stock Fiero calipers and rotors?
pmbrunelle OCT 01, 06:24 PM
If the Brembo is hydraulically similar to the 1988 Fiero caliper, what benefit is there to using the Brembo caliper?

Does the brake pedal feel stiffer with the Brembo caliper?

Is the main benefit a larger/heavier front rotor that can absorb/dissipate more heat for high-power cars? I guess that the rear rotors are already big enough to not be a limiting factor.

Pad form factor commonality being lost with the rear of the car may be considered an inconvenience. Most will probably want to run the same pad compound front and rear.


quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:
Haven't looked at application to the 84-87...



My understanding is that a fixed caliper requires a rotor that is held steady with low runout.

I don't know if 84-87 Fieros with their adjustable tapered roller wheel bearings (and the play that comes with them) will result in pad knockback problems.

Floating calipers seems to me like a good solution for the front of an 84-87 Fiero.
qwikgta OCT 01, 08:17 PM
It is pricey, but I'm glad we have another option for the 88's.
fieroguru OCT 01, 09:42 PM

quote
Originally posted by cam-a-lot:
Looks great, but any info on actual performance difference compared to stock Fiero calipers and rotors?




quote
Originally posted byr pmbrunelle:

If the Brembo is hydraulically similar to the 1988 Fiero caliper, what benefit is there to using the Brembo caliper?

Does the brake pedal feel stiffer with the Brembo caliper?

Is the main benefit a larger/heavier front rotor that can absorb/dissipate more heat for high-power cars? I guess that the rear rotors are already big enough to not be a limiting factor.

Pad form factor commonality being lost with the rear of the car may be considered an inconvenience. Most will probably want to run the same pad compound front and rear.

My understanding is that a fixed caliper requires a rotor that is held steady with low runout.

I don't know if 84-87 Fieros with their adjustable tapered roller wheel bearings (and the play that comes with them) will result in pad knockback problems.

Floating calipers seems to me like a good solution for the front of an 84-87 Fiero.



All my brake kits are designed with the braking leverage increase coming from the larger rotors and keeping the Fiero hydraulics stock.

For the 13" rotors, the increase in leverage is in the 30% range and night/day vs. stock. This design philosophy allows retaining the stock Fiero brake master, stock combination valve, rear parking brake, and keeps the stock brake bias front/rear. Actual stopping distances will be dependent on pavement, car weight, brake pad compounds, and tire compounds.

With the calipers being a hydraulic match allowed me to swap out the front 13" rotors with 88 Fiero calipers and install the 13" rotors with the Brembo calipers w/o impacting the already great braking performance. This is why I see this as an upgrade option for my current 13" brake kit (or other's 13" kits using the stock 88 Fiero calipers).

The main benefits:
Elimination of the stock 88 Front caliper:
  • These are becoming harder to find.
  • The calipers move on the 2 slider pins - which become a wear point and another source of movement/rattles over bumps.
  • The Brembo is solid mounted, the only moving parts are the 4 pistons, rebuild kits will likely be available for as long as I need them.
  • Looks - the Brembo calipers just look awesome!


Rotor improvements:
  • These rotors also have more aggressive cooling fins, so they will do a better job dissipating heat under aggressive use.
  • 2-piece rotors are available, are lighter than the Traverse 13" rotors, and come with the Fiero center bore - lighter and eliminates the need for concentric rings.


As for all the other concerns with the 84-87, those questions are best targeted for the vendors already offering a much larger (25 to 50%) Brembo caliper kits for those years. If I look at the 84-87 use of these calipers, the first hurdle is to see if the caliper could be mounted on the machined surface of caliper attachment bosses on the knuckle. I refuse to sell a kit that uses the as-cast side.


quote
Originally posted by qwikgta:
It is pricey, but I'm glad we have another option for the 88's.



Yeah, it isn't cheap...
When I found this caliper in 2021, they were $250 each new. Now they are $400 each with shipping. The two-piece rotors cost as much as the calipers.
fieroguru OCT 27, 08:14 AM
Bump!

jelly2m8 NOV 20, 04:14 PM
What will be the availability of replacement parts such as pads and rotors in the longer term future, will these be parts one can get from the local parts store? Ideally I would prefer to replace my 88 system with something that for sure will be available 10, 15 years down the road. I'm not asking what these are originally designed for, just that lets say if it was a corvette or mustang, etc. application, one knows those cars will be supported for ever.

[This message has been edited by jelly2m8 (edited 11-20-2024).]

fieroguru NOV 20, 10:20 PM
For the Brembos, the only parts you will need are rebuild kits with pistons and seals. There are no other wear parts on the calipers, so I expect these will be available indefinitely.

There is a lot of overlap between pad fitment within the Brembo family, so I don't expect the brake pads to be an issue either.

The rotors are from an enthusiast model with about 90,000 produced. I suspect these will be available for a long, long time as well.

Ultimately, the goal was to find the right parts for a hydraulic match to the 88 calipers... not the most plentiful or the cheapest with a hydraulic mis-match (there are already several others selling those).

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 11-20-2024).]