Clutch hydraulic issues strike again! (Page 1/1)
1985 Fiero GT SEP 10, 12:59 AM
First off, I've already diagnosed this, not looking for help, more just a rant/my experience with the clutch hydraulic/mechanical system.

I got my Fiero with a bad master cylinder, had a slow leak that required quick selection of a gear and careful use of reverse.

I fixed that with a rock auto master, bleeding was all it's cracked up to be, horrible.

I drive to Ontario, while there, on my way to church (2 hours away from where I was staying) clutch pedal went hard as a rock (release arm broke, slave cylinder extended to the end and jammed up with the master), 1/2 hour driving no clutch.

Diagnose, temporarily weld arm to get back, bleed bleed bleed.

Replace that with the Rodney release arm (really really great product, worth every penny and then some), more wonderful great bleeding! (Sarcasm if you can't tell).

Then I got Rodney master/slave and installed (last fall), more bleeding (noticed Rodney's master is not perfectly to spec, talked to him).

Rodney's master failed (last spring), pressing clutch resulted in fluid going into the reservoir instead of the lines, talked to Rodney, who finally looked into the travel discrepancy between his early cylinder and the OEM, aftermarket, and his late cylinder, said he'd never heard of this failure before, noone had noticed it being out of spec, etc. and that it might have contributed to the failure, Rodney's customer service was great, no complaints about him, he sent a replacement master (shipped with another order to save on shipping, we've ordered a lot of his stuff)

In the diagnostic process for that I reinstalled the rock auto master (which was still good), more painful bleeding, I received Rodney's master, but hadn't gotten around to actually installing it, as the rock auto was working fine.

Take another trip to Ontario, on my way to church again, clutch engagement was at the floor, but still drivable/shiftable, way home from church and meeting more Fiero owners, clutch disappeared, goes to the floor, with no effect on slave cylinder movement. I had to drive 2 hours with no clutch. I look around, and there's fluid in the foot well, so the rock auto master has failed (why didn't I put in the Rodney one earlier, which I left at home in NB).

It's not a big deal right now, as I don't need to drive my Fiero for a while, and planned to leave it in Ontario for a while anyhow while I shuttle some family around in another car, so I'll be able to pick up my Rodney master, and the tools, and get it repaired (more bleeding) for the trip back to NB.

This rant has made me feel better, I'm seriously disliking my Fiero's clutch/transmission right now (having to rev match shift really brings to light any/all of the weak synchros I have, especially 2nd gear) I want an F23!

Feel free to post your ludicrously complicated clutch money/time pit stories, I'm also curious if anyone else out there has killed a Rodney master cylinder, or if mine was a one off manufacturing defect/fluke, nothing against Rodney, he makes a lot of great parts, and I don't want to calculate how much money I've paid him, but I've nearly bought everything applicable to my year/model, from stickers, to cradle bushings, shift cables, everything, and it's all been well worth it, but I'm a bit fed up with clutch hydraulics at the moment haha.
Patrick SEP 10, 01:13 AM

Back in April of 1999, the following was probably the very first thread I posted in here at PFF. Yep, I used to have my share of clutch issues as well. Ah, the good ol' days!

Clutch Info uncovered...
fieroguru SEP 10, 07:07 AM
One of the challenges with bleeding the fiero clutch is over time the slave cylinder can become non-level making the bleeder point not the highest point in the slave cylinder.

I found that bleeding was exceptionally easier if I raised the driver side rear (or the entire driver side) up about 6" for the bleeding process. This helped ensure all air bubbles in the slave were on the end of the slave with the bleeder.

Bleeding also needs to be done slowly to avoid busting up the air bubbles into a 100 smaller air bubbles.

I switched to HTOB vs. typical fiero slave cylinder back in 2005 and never looked back.

The HTOB 282 getrag (92-94) worked great and has a dedicated feed and bleed line, so it was super simple to bleed.

The HTOB in the F23 and F40 are more temperamental to bleed as there is a single line to the HTOB for feed and bleed. So again, time is your friend, slowly press the clutch (5 seconds to fully press the pedal to the floor), wait 30 seconds to allow the fluid pressed into the HTOB to settle and air to come to the top, then open the bleeder to push the air out of the line feeding the HTOB. Rinse and repeat no more than 3 times. Then wait an hour and come back and repeat the process a 2nd time. When the air bubbles get busted up (like when they go through the two check valve assemblies), the only thing that will consolidate and help with bleeding it waiting for them to consolidate again.
Vintage-Nut SEP 10, 11:23 AM
As a young mechanic years ago, I too 'hated' bleeding the air out from hydraulic fluid and tried various ways to accomplish the task.

Until I tried VACUUM!

I found that purging air from hydraulic lines {be it brake or clutch} using vacuum is the fastest and easiest way than other methods which of course my opinion.

Everybody can do it their way, but this method always works great without a 'helper'.

------------------
Original Owner of a Silver '88 GT
Under 'Production Refurbishment' @ 136k Miles

Larryinkc SEP 10, 08:05 PM
V8 Archie's clutch info and bleed technique


http://www.v8archie.com/v8Archie/ToC6.htm
pmbrunelle SEP 10, 09:53 PM

quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:
The HTOB 282 getrag (92-94) worked great and has a dedicated feed and bleed line, so it was super simple to bleed.




quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:
The HTOB in the F23 and F40 are more temperamental to bleed as there is a single line to the HTOB for feed and bleed.



One hydraulic line is cheaper than two. I suppose that for the F23/F40 concept to work, their HTOBs must have been delivered pre-filled with brake fluid from the supplier, otherwise, they could never be bled on the assembly line in a timely fashion.

As time goes on, auto parts become more plasticky and difficult to service...
fieroguru SEP 11, 07:03 AM

quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:


One hydraulic line is cheaper than two. I suppose that for the F23/F40 concept to work, their HTOBs must have been delivered pre-filled with brake fluid from the supplier, otherwise, they could never be bled on the assembly line in a timely fashion.

As time goes on, auto parts become more plasticky and difficult to service...



The OEM ones do come pre-filled as installed on the transmissions. The fill is enough to compress the pressure plate when installed on the engine. When the chassis side line is installed, it releases the check valve and the excess fluid is then pushed back into the master.

This is why early on there was a common misunderstanding of the full range of the HTOB on the F23/F40 swaps as people were taking the measurement w/o installing the bleeder assembly and releasing the excess fluid.
jelly2m8 SEP 15, 04:18 AM
Dude, you got a guys number on your phone... The last time we did this, the forum wanted you to rebuild your engine, after some ramblings what was it? a loose connector :P
1985 Fiero GT SEP 15, 08:10 AM

quote
Originally posted by jelly2m8:

Dude, you got a guys number on your phone... The last time we did this, the forum wanted you to rebuild your engine, after some ramblings what was it? a loose connector :P




Yeah, no, I already know the issue, it's simple enough, I've just had bad luck with my master cylinders, and don't look forward to bleeding again haha