3800 and F Bodies. Curious question. (Page 1/1)
Khw AUG 26, 01:01 AM
At some point here I will be looking for my next toy. I've been kicking around the idea of something smaller and sporty, 1st or 2nd gen Eclipse/Talon maybe, or building a lowered minitruck like I used to have when I first got married, Datsun 620 or maybe Dodge D50/Ram 50.

I got to thinking if I went the minitruck route I will want to swap in a more current engine and trans. I mean lets face it, those 2 trucks are 70's/80's and most likely running a tired 4 cylinder with a carb and a bajillion miles. I like the 3800 engines and with the series 2 being used in the 4th gen F body it made me wonder.

Are the 3800's used in the F body the FWD trans bolt pattern? If they are, did they use an adapter plate for the RWD trans in the F body or was there a RWD trans made for them with the FWD bolt pattern? If it's a RWD trans with a FWD pattern, which trans is it? Is it only available in auto like the FWD trans or was there a stick to?

I would think a 3800 NA or SC would be a vast improvement over the 77 HP stocker in the 620 for example, if it will fit. Considering I've seen swaps into VW Rabbits I would think it should fit.

My other option for engine isn't much of an option as finding a low mile one isn't going to be easy. I'd like either the 3800 or the 3.2L SHO V6 from the Ford Taurus. I think the 3800 would be better overall in the end though.

I figured I'd ask so I can use that info to help me decide between minitruck or small and sporty.

Thanks all .
Monkeyman AUG 26, 07:17 AM
How about an older S10 pick up with a SBC? There are a few places that make an adapter kit for that and SBC parts are dirt cheap.
GreenPlatypus AUG 28, 12:11 AM
3.8 in the Camaro/Firebird is still 60 degree pattern. Transmission bell housing matches the engine, no adapter plate needed. Doubt you would fit the length of the 3800 supercharger in a rwd setup unless you get real creative. The fwd and rwd 3.8's have different engine mount points and few other little changes.
thesameguy AUG 31, 07:25 PM
if you're going to do a Dodge, why not do some boosted four cylinder? Either a modern DOHC 2.4 or a more age-appropriate 2.6l?

I have always loved the D50 - one of my favorite minitrucks ever.
Khw SEP 15, 09:00 PM

quote
Originally posted by Monkeyman:

How about an older S10 pick up with a SBC? There are a few places that make an adapter kit for that and SBC parts are dirt cheap.



I don't really consider the S10 a "mini" truck. It's more midsize. Not as big as full size but not quite as small as the import mini's of the time (the Dodge D50 was essentially a re-branded Mitsubishi). I'd throw the Ford Ranger in the midsize category to for that time. Granted a few years down the road the Ford Ranger was a re-branded Mazda but by then mini trucks had all grown to be more mid sized like the S10 and Ranger.
Khw SEP 15, 09:13 PM

quote
Originally posted by thesameguy:

if you're going to do a Dodge, why not do some boosted four cylinder? Either a modern DOHC 2.4 or a more age-appropriate 2.6l?

I have always loved the D50 - one of my favorite minitrucks ever.



A more modern 4 cylinder maybe, but to me boosting the 4 cylinder that came in them would be like boosting the Iron Duke in a Fiero. I know for example the Z24 engine used in the Nissan 720 wasn't terrible but from my experience with it, I don't think it was anywhere near strong enough internally for boost. Not to mention the challenges of finding parts to strengthen the internals on such an old engine.
Khw SEP 15, 09:25 PM

quote
Originally posted by GreenPlatypus:

3.8 in the Camaro/Firebird is still 60 degree pattern. Transmission bell housing matches the engine, no adapter plate needed. Doubt you would fit the length of the 3800 supercharger in a rwd setup unless you get real creative. The fwd and rwd 3.8's have different engine mount points and few other little changes.



I'm a bit confused here. Is the trans used in the F-body insanely long or something? The D50 and 620 are both RWD already. I could see the length of the engine itself maybe being a bit of a challenge to fit under the hood, but I've seen mini-trucks with SBC's swapped into them and recalling the engine bay of my old 720, the change from clutch fan to electric fan alone should give me 3"-4" of usable length in the engine bay. Going to a more modern radiator should also gain some space and even at that there was a couple of inches in the 720 that the radiator could have been moved forward into. Aside from that, I would most likely go NA with it because of availability. More NA than SC 3800's were made so they'd be easier to find and going from the 70-90 HP the stock engines made to 205 HP of the NA would be a vast improvement. It may be difficult enough to keep traction going NA without throwing in the additional torque and HP of the SC.

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 09-15-2015).]

thesameguy SEP 15, 10:00 PM

quote
Originally posted by Khw:


A more modern 4 cylinder maybe, but to me boosting the 4 cylinder that came in them would be like boosting the Iron Duke in a Fiero. I know for example the Z24 engine used in the Nissan 720 wasn't terrible but from my experience with it, I don't think it was anywhere near strong enough internally for boost. Not to mention the challenges of finding parts to strengthen the internals on such an old engine.



I'm not talking about boosting the stock four, but rather using either the 2.4l DOHC turbo found in the PT Cruiser Turbo or Neon SRT-4, or using the stock boosted 2.6l from the '80s. While it's no powerhouse like a modern motor, it can still make excellent power with good reliability. The Starion/Conquest can be boosted to mid 300s without any major issues, and it might ease installation. I like to keep my vehicles "in the family" wherever possible, but unfortunately engines weren't Chrysler's or Mitsubishi's strong point by and large... You could always take a page from the V8 S10 page and put a 318 or something up front, but that seems wrong in a D50. There is a damaged Shelby CSX for sale here in Sac - that would make an interesting transplant for a D50!