Abortion thread (Page 1/43) 2.5 MAR 28, 01:08 PM I welcome you to lay out your argument, or argue with mine. Be advised there are many old threads on this topic, many unanswered questions and avoided realities, threads left without good arguments. I would also recommend you read those threads. Here is the gist of mine: Premeditated murdering of people is bad, even if the moral majority decides it isn't. If your only arguemt is something like what about rape, risk to mothers life..or other exceptions...then I welcome you to consider your exception raised in the argument and cater your argument to the rest of the instances when you reply. Since they are the massive majority. slicknick MAR 28, 03:44 PM If you're legislating against abortion, you better be legislating for taking care of people cradle to grave. No death penalties Universal Healthcare Universal Basic Income Addiction Rehabilitation Or else you don't really care about people and are using abortion as a single issue. But the CHURCH can help people with a hand up!! Bull. The smaller guys do what they can sometimes, but Osteen and the like will spit on you on the sidewalk if there ain't a camera there recording some fundraiser. Some people don't want babies. Sometimes circumstances change. Sometimes the burden is ruinous to all involved. Don't have SEX if you don't want a baby!! Get off of your high horse. People are gonna get laid. It's what we do as humans. Adoption is a great choice Until there are no children available for adoption, then there's too many children waiting for a forever home. Not to mention the abuse that exists in foster care. There are even adoption agencies out there that have the gall to not adopt to gays. Imagine having a loving home waiting for you but it not being good enough. We kill everything else on this planet with reckless abandon, why is a fetus any different. And cool, maybe abortion will be outlawed in some states. And even some of those anti-abortion states want to keep you from traveling interstate for the procedure, like some prisoner. Abortion won't stop, it'll just get more gruesome. 2.5 MAR 28, 03:51 PM quote Originally posted by slicknick: If you're legislating against abortion, you better be legislating for taking care of people cradle to grave. . If one disagrees with murdering a child they must be for welfare (and worse), I disagree. slicknick MAR 28, 03:59 PM quote Originally posted by 2.5: If one disagrees with murdering a child they must be for welfare (and worse), I disagree. Ahh, so abortion=bad but suffering=cost of doing business 2.5 MAR 28, 04:00 PM quote Originally posted by slicknick: We kill everything else on this planet with reckless abandon, why is a fetus any different. This view is probably more common than I would like to believe, as result of a downward spiral of society. I wonder what was taught and believed to be meaningless first, human life or everything else? 2.5 MAR 28, 04:05 PM quote Originally posted by slicknick: Ahh, so abortion=bad but suffering=cost of doing business Please re-read the opening post, and my second. Have you seen posts where I was an advocate of personal responsibility? There have been many, that concept may help shed light on your understanding of my perspectives. Am I to understand that you think because any suffering exists somewhere that murderig babies is then ok? I do not comprehend that logic. slicknick MAR 28, 04:34 PM quote Originally posted by 2.5: This view is probably more common than I would like to believe, as result of a downward spiral of society. I wonder what was taught and believed to be meaningless first, human life or everything else? Human life has never been that sacred. We just can't work the kids to death in the coal mines anymore. In the US, and I'm sure many other places, you can't be poor anymore. you can't live in a shanty with a pot belly stove and your 20 kids and eat dirt like you used to. Society and the system won't allow it, and even when it did, those kids were dropping off like nobodys business. So do you want to go back to dust bowl times when kids died from work and untreated disease, or caveman times when they just ditched them, or what? Or do you want that pregnant mom to work two or three minimum wage jobs, miss OB appointments, get immediately reported to the state for missing said appointments, and have a child where, since we don't believe in welfare all that much, suffers as much as possible with their mother. Or is everything just white picket fences and stay at home moms in your world? 82-T/A [At Work] MAR 28, 04:49 PM I am pro-life, which means I am against abortion. That said, I've become strongly against the death penalty as well. I do not have a problem with the "morning after" pill, or something of that extent. Between that point and a heartbeat, I really can't say where I stand. I 100% believe that if there's a heart-beat, abortion is unacceptable. But I have some grey-area before that. Human life is sacred. Every person truly is an opportunity for greatness. Fats MAR 28, 05:06 PM quote Originally posted by slicknick: If you're legislating against abortion, you better be legislating for taking care of people cradle to grave. No death penalties Universal Healthcare Universal Basic Income Addiction Rehabilitation Or else you don't really care about people and are using abortion as a single issue. I'll go for all that. Set up a test in States that agree to it and see how it works out. No abortion at all, ever. And since you've got the Government in charge of everything else, you go to their office to get laid. Also, work camps. It always ends up in work camps Comrade. This communist utopia you think will happen will never happen. Humans are horrible, and always take advantage of the system to make themselves better than the other people. quote But the CHURCH can help people with a hand up!! Bull. The smaller guys do what they can sometimes, but Osteen and the like will spit on you on the sidewalk if there ain't a camera there recording some fundraiser. The church used to be the "go to" on almost everything, including unplanned pregnancy. The Government (What you advocated for above) stepped in and took away much of their ability, the Government continues to take away the ability of the Church to aid people. Sure, there are still places that help, but the Government got into that business and things changed. If you are giving away food and teaching people how to be self sufficient, and the Government sets up a program where you get food and money, AND don't have to do anything to get the free stuff... People stop going to you for help and take the easy path. Osteen isn't the "church" BTW, the church he works for donated gives a year to all kinds of aid, plus they have food and clothing "kitchens". I believe it was started by his father. I don't get the hate around him, but Joel doesn't take any pay from the church, and donates some of his income (from books and businesses) to the church. Sure, he seems like a massive prick, I've tried to listen to some of his sermons on XM over the years, and I can't get into him, but some do. How you find God is your path man. quote Some people don't want babies. Sometimes circumstances change. Sometimes the burden is ruinous to all involved. Don't have SEX if you don't want a baby!! Get off of your high horse. People are gonna get laid. It's what we do as humans. How many kinds of birth control are there? Abortion isn't birth control, it's killing a baby because you valued sex more than someone's life. I've been married for 22 years to a woman that will end up in a wheel chair if she gets pregnant. Amazingly we've not ever ended up having to make a hard choice... It's like we realize that we have responsibility and do things to mitigate the dangers. BTW, if she did somehow get pregnant, we would absolutely keep the baby. quote Adoption is a great choice Until there are no children available for adoption, then there's too many children waiting for a forever home. Not to mention the abuse that exists in foster care. There are even adoption agencies out there that have the gall to not adopt to gays. Imagine having a loving home waiting for you but it not being good enough. Have you ever went through the foster process? First off, the Government is involved. The same one you want in charge of everything else. You go to classes, not a huge problem. Then you have background checks and have to visit counselors. Then you get house visits, constant house visits. They tell you what pets you can and can't have. Everything you do has to be OK'd by Big Brother. It's great to be able to help kids, but the hoops that have been set up benefit the system, not the kids or the helper. And this system clearly works really well [/sarcasm] since we never hear about children being abused in this system at all....🙄 quote We kill everything else on this planet with reckless abandon, why is a fetus any different. What??? Oh, I know why it's different, because it's a HUMAN LIFE. quote And cool, maybe abortion will be outlawed in some states. And even some of those anti-abortion states want to keep you from traveling interstate for the procedure, like some prisoner. Abortion won't stop, it'll just get more gruesome. So, if it's legal to have sex with a 15 year old in the state next to you, and you take a 15 year old to that state to have sex, would that be wrong? What if California said that it's no longer illegal to steal a car if you have the keys, so you rent cars and take them to California to cut up and resell. Would that be wrong? Perhaps you are right, people are monsters after all. You, for instance, seem to relish the thought of being able to kill a baby. People are going to break the law, so we should just do away with all the laws. I'm sure that'll work out great since your side (the commies, so you know where I think you "stand".) relies on the law to keep the other side from unaliving you. Fats MAR 28, 05:21 PM quote Originally posted by slicknick: In the US, and I'm sure many other places, you can't be poor anymore. you can't live in a shanty with a pot belly stove and your 20 kids and eat dirt like you used to. Society and the system won't allow it, and even when it did, those kids were dropping off like nobodys business. Ahhhh, you are sheltered. I get it. You don't know how the world works. The shantytowns of America: Inside the shacks, cars, tents and boxes that America's homeless call home There are people in shanties all over the country. Heck, California has people living in shanties all over the state. I drive past shanty towns all over the country. There was one about 50 miles north of me that was bulldozed a few years ago. I've still got friends I grew up with that have no indoor plumbing and dirt floors. I know poor like most people don't. My family was poor, but went to church and didn't rely on drugs and alcohol like many of the other people did. My wife didn't have indoor plumbing until she was 10. There are horrors that people will never understand, but also blessings that they will never get. I would almost trade everything to go back to the times of our entire family living in a one bedroom house outside the poorest town, in the poorest county in Arkansas. We had a homemade wood burning stove, cooked beans on an open fire outside, and went to bed when the sun went down. Most of our days were spent exploring caves, and running around barefoot. Not because we didn't have shoes. We didn't tear them up so they looked good at school and church. The "issue" is that most of these problems are self caused and because of "Government Aid", they aren't going to get any better. You take your free monthly check, get high for a few weeks, suffer for the last week, and repeat.