Abrams Tanks to Ukraine! But The Armor Is Classified (Page 1/3)
Zeb JAN 25, 02:30 PM
https://www.thedrive.com/th...t-to-send-to-ukraine

M1 Abrams Tanks In U.S. Inventory Have Armor Too Secret To Send To Ukraine. So they can’t just be pulled from U.S. stocks due to their still classified armor. How long will it take to downgrade their armor to the export version? Months, maybe years.

Will Biden just declassify the Special Armor? Will the Ukrainians be able to get trained on the M1's and be able to maintain them? What other classified systems will have to be downgraded before we're willing to accept that Ivan will grab a disabled one off the battlefield?

Many questions, all answers are potentially bad.
olejoedad JAN 25, 02:49 PM
I would suspect some NATO equipment will be sent to Ukraine and then be replaced by Uncle Sam.
randye JAN 25, 04:33 PM

quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

I would suspect some NATO equipment will be sent to Ukraine and then be replaced by Uncle Sam.





The German Bundeswehr has been replacing it's Leopard 2 A5 and A6 models with the latest A7 and A7+ variants.

The Leopards are already on continent and are easier / cheaper to transport.

Crew familiarization training can also be done cheaper and easier, and much closer to theater.

Even the older Leopard models, (A5 & A6) are superior to anything the Russians presently field.

Dementia Joe's 31 tanks are just a drop in the bucket and probably will never materialize in Ukraine.

I'll bet on a complex "shell game" of trading assets and money with NATO and the Bundeswehr to supply even more vehicles to happen instead.

https://www.armyrecognition...ks_in_the_world.html

.

By the way, the tanks are one thing, but where is all the 120 mm ammo, (APFSDS, etc.), going to come from?

Then there is the HUGE train of other spares and supplies that are also required to field any AFV....

This isn't like just dropping off an old used car for them drive.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 01-25-2023).]

MidEngineManiac JAN 25, 05:03 PM
Problem, just what are the gonna be shooting ?

Putin just made it clear D.U. rounds would be considered nuclear weapons.

https://www.thesun.ie/news/...latest-russia-putin/

TODAY, 15:30
Leopard 2 projectiles tipped with depleted uranium regarded by Russia as ‘nuclear dirty bombs’
Head of the Russian delegation at the OSCE Forum for Security Cooperation, Konstantin Gavrilov, said the use of Leopard 2 projectiles tipped with depleted uranium will be regarded by Russia as “nuclear dirty bombs”.

Gavrilov said: "We warn Western sponsors of the Kiev military machine from encouraging nuclear provocations and blackmail.

“We know that the Leopard 2 tank, as well as the Bradley and Marder infantry fighting vehicles, are armed with uranium-core armour-piercing projectiles, the use of which leads to contamination of the area, as happened in Yugoslavia and Iraq.

“If Kiev is supplied with such shells for NATO heavy military equipment, we will consider this as the use of dirty nuclear bombs against Russia, with all the ensuing consequences."
randye JAN 25, 05:15 PM

quote
Originally posted by MidEngineManiac:

Problem, just what are the gonna be shooting ?

Putin just made it clear D.U. rounds would be considered nuclear weapons.





I guess the Russians are going to have to go gather up all that Svinets-2 ammo, (DU) that their T80s have been spraying all over the Donbas.
rinselberg JAN 26, 07:35 AM
They can just line up all the Abrams tanks that are destined for Ukraine and parade them past Biden at the aptly named Fort Bliss in Texas.

As each tank passes in front of him, Biden consciously (but silently) thinks of the words "This tank's armor is now Declassified by my authority as President."
Zeb JAN 26, 10:47 AM

quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

They can just line up all the Abrams tanks that are destined for Ukraine and parade them past Biden at the aptly named Fort Bliss in Texas.

As each tank passes in front of him, Biden consciously (but silently) thinks of the words "This tank's armor is now Declassified by my authority as President."



That was one of my questions. It may be as simple as that.

OR, has the Army found 31 very early production Abrams without the later classified Special Armor upgrade?

Does anyone know if we actually lost any Abrams in Iraq or wherever? As in destroyed and not recovered? Given the age of the Abrams, the cat may be out of the bag on the Special Armor packages.

Given the espionage and hacking activities of our adversaries, it seems we don't have any actual secrets any more. (So why bother handling documents correctly?)

Or, as Olejoedad and Randye pointed out, is this all political theater? (Isn't everything?) If I recall correctly, the Germans said something like: "We will supply Leopards if the US agrees to supply Abrams." Well, we've agreed to. If they don't get there until 2056, well, then, we did agree to. As far as Putin is concerned, we did.

Inquiring minds ( and mine ) want to know.
rinselberg JAN 26, 11:07 AM
They just had a U.S. Army general doing the "talking head" thing on TV.

He conceded that these Abrams M-1 tanks are not going to be of any tangible help to the Ukrainians until at least another year has come and gone. Or about a year. Certainly no use of these M-1 tanks by the Ukrainians anytime soon.

I do think the Ukrainians will be making use of the German-made Leopard tanks sooner than that, and so this was a way to accommodate the Germans. The Germans were insisting that we agree to send some M-1 tanks. They didn't want to be out in front with the Leopard tanks without a similar gesture from the United States.

He said that one aspect of this is that it signals a long term commitment on the part of the U.S. to Ukraine. The Russians are now looking at a scenario where Ukraine will have British Challenger tanks and German Leopard tanks in the near future, and U.S. M-1 tanks coming in farther down the line.

The Ukrainians are also getting other kinds of armored vehicles from the U.S. and other NATO members, including France.

Think of this Abrams M-1 tanks commitment as a "win win."

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 01-26-2023).]

Zeb JAN 26, 02:37 PM
I agree it's a win for Ukraine. But it's an escalation, and...



I hope it don't.
cliffw JAN 27, 10:41 AM

quote
Originally posted by Zeb:
Will Biden just declassify the Special Armor? Will the Ukrainians be able to get trained on the M1's and be able to maintain them? What other classified systems will have to be downgraded before we're willing to accept that Ivan will grab a disabled one off the battlefield?



Stay tuned next week at the same bat time on the same bat channel.

Actually, I heard that our heros decided to upgrade their protection by hanging an outer barrier before an enemy armament could strike the original armor. I forget what it was. Chain link ?