Concerning Roe (Page 2/3)
MidEngineManiac JUL 14, 09:36 AM
Democracy is another failed experiment.

It was intended as a way to run the affairs of state, not to micro-manage or own the lives of individuals. THATS called slavery, and it matters little if the master is one or many. Constitutions world-wide were designed for that very purpose, but that hasnt worked out so well since there are so many profiting finding ways to circumvent constitutions.


Screw the "will of the people". We need to return to "the will of the one".

[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 07-14-2022).]

williegoat JUL 14, 09:48 AM

quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

President Biden recounted or referenced the story. Many said it was a story so suspiciously convenient for the abortion rights agenda that it likely wasn't true—even a fact checker-style columnist for the famously liberal Washington Post. But now it's confirmed. So says MSNBC anchor Chris Hayes in this near 7-minute broadcast segment from Wednesday, July 13.
https://www.msnbc.com/all-i...-220713-144017989511

I would post a transcript in addition to the video, but it's not yet available. But I'll post this instead:

"Arrest made in rape of Ohio girl that led to Indiana abortion and international attention"
Bethany Bruner, Monroe Trombly and Tony Cook for USA Today; July 13, 2022.
https://www.usatoday.com/st...bortion/10049383002/

Includes video report and text. The text is just long enough to do full justice to all obviously relevant aspects of the story. So if you're just not "into" Chris Hayes... "you do you." This report from USA Today is just as good and perhaps a quicker way to get the full story.


"I've been following the Jan-6 committee hearings, and I swear, it's almost like a face lift. I can't believe what I'm seeing in my mirror the last few weeks."



This is not a story about the failure of the Supreme Court. It is a story about the failure of our government to protect our borders.

*Edited to remove the image. I haven't even had breakfast yet.*

[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 07-14-2022).]

Wichita JUL 14, 10:20 AM

quote
Originally posted by MidEngineManiac:

Democracy is another failed experiment.

It was intended as a way to run the affairs of state, not to micro-manage or own the lives of individuals. THATS called slavery, and it matters little if the master is one or many. Constitutions world-wide were designed for that very purpose, but that hasnt worked out so well since there are so many profiting finding ways to circumvent constitutions.


Screw the "will of the people". We need to return to "the will of the one".




I agree with this.

The coordination of government's effort in a Democracy has a priority of political leaning, usually through vote buying schemes for political gain and pandering. Very few government organizations work towards non-political goals. Military, NASA and the USPS are examples, but they are hugely inefficient and wasteful.

williegoat JUL 14, 10:24 AM
Our republic was the most successful and prosperous government in the history of human civilization. Where we failed was vigilance.

We allowed ourselves to be enticed by carnival hucksters. Some of us were ignorant, some were greedy and some were just plain evil. In the end, we were sold our by our fellow countrymen for a few pieces of silver.

We are no longer free, because we have ignored the constitution.
olejoedad JUL 14, 11:17 AM

quote
Originally posted by williegoat:

Our republic was the most successful and prosperous government in the history of human civilization. Where we failed was vigilance.

We allowed ourselves to be enticed by carnival hucksters. Some of us were ignorant, some were greedy and some were just plain evil. In the end, we were sold our by our fellow countrymen for a few pieces of silver.

We are no longer free, because we have ignored the constitution.



Quoted for truth.

This should be on billboards across the land.
rinselberg JUL 19, 05:16 PM
Kick Alioto in the Aspercreme... how an abortion case from 1792 reveals that "Roe was right" and "Dobbs is wrong."

"A 1792 case reveals that key Founders saw abortion as a private matter"

quote
Thomas Jefferson, John Marshall and Patrick Henry didn’t advocate for prosecution of a woman who probably had an abortion


Strikes 1 and 2 against the Supreme Court's most recent decision in Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization, overturning "Roe".

quote
A basic premise of Supreme Court Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr.’s majority opinion in Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization was that the Constitution can protect the right to abortion only if it is “deeply rooted in our history and traditions.” This statement complements Justice Amy Coney Barrett’s concept of originalism, or the idea that the court should interpret the Constitution by trying to infer “the meaning that it had at the time people ratified it.”

Alito’s evidence that abortion was always considered a criminal act, and thus something the Constitution should not protect, consisted of a single criminal case that was prosecuted in 1652 in the (Catholic) colony of Maryland. He then jumped ahead to laws that states enacted, mostly in the mid-to-late-19th century, to criminalize abortion. This cursory survey of abortion in early America was hardly complete, especially because it ignored the history of abortion in the years in which the Constitution was drafted and ratified.


Strike 3... Alioto and the other court-cons down on strikes. Back to the dugout, Sam. And take ACB and Clarence Thomas with ya'. "Grab some pine, meat."

quote
The Federalist Marshall believed in a strong national government. Jefferson mostly supported a decentralized system. Henry was a populist. Yet all three tacitly agreed that abortion in this case was a private matter, not a criminal act worthy of further investigation and prosecution.


"Constitutional jurisprudence is Easy When You Know How"

Sarah Hougen Poggi and Cynthia A. Kierner for the Washington Post; July 19, 2022.
https://www.washingtonpost....tion-private-matter/


"Grab some pine, meat." Mike Krukow's catchphrase when a batter is set down on strikes. Krukow (on the right) and Duane Kuiper are the mainstays in the video broadcast booth at Oracle Park during San Francisco Giants home games.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 07-19-2022).]

Wichita JUL 19, 05:37 PM
This is not a defense for anti-abortion advocates, but your premise for arguing about the founder's intent is a red herring.

Not a single state law will jail a woman for having an abortion. All these anti-abortion laws are all designed to punish the abortion providers, not the woman (or man) having the abortion.


rinselberg JUL 19, 07:31 PM

quote
Originally posted by Wichita:

This is not a defense for anti-abortion advocates, but your premise for arguing about the founder's intent is a red herring. Not a single state law will jail a woman for having an abortion. All these anti-abortion laws are all designed to punish the abortion providers, not the woman (or man) having the abortion.


I don't see how that "scores" as a logical argument or rebuttal.

But I think what's needed is federal legislation of nation-wide standards and protections for abortion, with certain restrictions. To establish with federal law a middle-of-the-road philosophy that would defeat the extremists on both sides of this issue. I think I am echoing "82" and perhaps some other forum members as well.

I call that (my previous message) an "attitude" post. An attempted or ostensibly attempted "agitation" of the forum, Or an ASS (Attention Seeking Syndrome) as one forum wag likes to say, although I think there are more accurate diagnoses of it to be had. (Not that I'm volunteering any.)

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 07-19-2022).]

2.5 JUL 20, 03:41 PM

quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

But I think what's needed is federal legislation of nation-wide standards and protections for abortion, with certain restrictions. To establish with federal law a middle-of-the-road philosophy that would defeat the extremists on both sides of this issue.




Lets break down what you'd lke to see. Qualifications for when would it be ok to kill babies? What age? 2 too old? 1? 6 mo? 1 mo? Fully developed but not past the magical canal yet? Due in a month? Due in 6 mo? Due in 9? Reasons... Rape? Incest? Just Lazy? Just feel like it? Don't have alot of money? Not married? Don't know who dad is?
rinselberg JUL 20, 06:35 PM
Backgrounder:

"The most common abortion procedures and when they occur"
Brittany Shammas, Aaron Steckelberg and Daniela Santamariña for the Washington Post; updated June 24, 2022.
https://www.washingtonpost....abortion-procedures/


quote
On Friday [June 24, 2022] the Supreme Court overturned the right to abortion established almost 50 years ago in Roe v. Wade. The ruling triggers immediate bans in some states and major restrictions in others, dramatically reshaping access to a procedure that has been protected in America since 1973.

The number of abortions performed in the United States has been on a downward trend for three decades. In 2019, there were 629,898 abortions reported to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, compared with 765,651 in 2010 and 1.4 million in 1990. That data does not include numbers from California, Maryland and New Hampshire.

New research by the Guttmacher Institute, a nonprofit research organization that supports abortion rights, suggests the long-term decline may be reversing, with an increase in 2020.

Nearly 1 in 4 women in the United States will have the procedure by the age of 45, according to an estimate from the Guttmacher Institute. The group estimates that 18 percent of U.S. pregnancies end in induced abortions.

Most abortions happen in the first trimester. In 2019, nearly 80 percent of the procedures reported to the CDC were performed before the 10th week of pregnancy. Almost 93 percent were performed before the 13th week. . . .



quote
The viability of a fetus is determined on a case-by-case basis. It is generally understood to be reached around 24 weeks and sometimes as late as 28 weeks. In all, 44 states prohibit some abortions after a certain point in pregnancy, according to the Guttmacher Institute.

Third-trimester abortions are rare and heavily restricted. Just 1 percent of abortions take place after 21 weeks; the third trimester begins around the 28th week.

“When abortions occur in the third trimester, most often something has gone terribly wrong in the pregnant person’s life or pregnancy,” . . .

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 07-20-2022).]