Newly declassified... U.S. 'intel' cannot pin Covid on any of China's virus labs. (Page 2/3)
fredtoast JUN 26, 01:37 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:


But in 2021, China benefited exponentially where as every other country suffered greatly.


US economy grew by 5.7% in 2021. Largest growth rate in over 40 years.
rinselberg JUN 26, 02:08 PM
Having scrolled through two news reports and two PDF-format documents, I am ready to release an unclassified summary of my findings.


I opened this thread with these particulars:

"No direct evidence COVID began in Wuhan lab, US intelligence report says"
Olivia Gazis for CBS News; June 23, 2023.
https://www.cbsnews.com/new...ligence-report-says/

"Potential Links Between the Wuhan Institute of Virology and the Origin of the Covid-19 Pandemic"
Office of the Director of National Intelligence; June 23, 2023.
https://www.dni.gov/files/O...OVID-19-20230623.pdf


Subsequently, forum member "82" offered these other particulars:

"NIH documents provide new evidence [that the U.S.] funded Gain-Of-Function [virus] research in Wuhan"

quote
U.S.-funded experiment in China posed biosafety risks but did not cause Covid-19 pandemic, scientists say.

Sharon Lerner, Mara Hvistendahl and Maia Hibbett for The Intercept; September 9, 2021.
https://theintercept.com/20...f-function-research/

"Fauci Was 'Untruthful' to Congress About Wuhan Lab Research, New Documents Appear To Show"
Ed Browne for Tech & Science; September 9, 2021.
https://www.congress.gov/11...4-20211201-SD004.pdf


I have scrolled through all of this material, "eyeballing" various paragraphs and sentences and looking for "red flags", but I did not find any.

I don't think there is any conflict or disagreement between any part of this material and any other part of this material. I think it all says the same thing.

The news report of September 9, 2021, from the Intercept, which was provided by forum member "82", starts with this:

quote
U.S.-funded experiment in China posed biosafety risks but did not cause Covid-19 pandemic, scientists say.


I don't see anything in any of this material that contradicts the way in which I titularized (or titled) this forum topic; to wit:

quote
Newly declassified... U.S. 'intel' cannot pin Covid on any of China's virus labs.


Considering the idea that the Covid-19 pathogen could have emerged directly from nature, or from the so-called "wet markets", and without any connection to any research or other activities or protocols at any of China's virus research labs, I have this: In 1918, a previously unknown strain of the H1N1 virus emerged and gripped the world in a pandemic that killed an estimated 675,000 people in the U.S. alone. This is known as the Great Influenza pandemic or more colloquially, the "Spanish flu."

The science of virology at this time (1918) was very rudimentary. There clearly wasn't any Gain-Of-Function research at this time. The words "Gain-Of-Function" or GOFR would not become "a thing" until our current century, which followed that one. And yet, the Great Influenza pathogen emerged.

One theory is that the Great War (World War One) set up a kind of giant-sized "wet market" just behind the battle lines. Large quantities of livestock were brought close to the front lines in France, where the animals were slaughtered to feed the British, French and American armies. There was huge proximity between all of this livestock, and the carcasses at the slaughter facilities, and constantly large numbers of soldiers passing through on their way to or from the battle lines.

I've seen a TV documentary about a researcher who studied this. His conclusion is that this is what gave rise to the Great Influenza pathogen—a giant "wet market", as we would call it, with similarities to the wet markets in China and particularly, the wet market in Wuhan that became front and center in discussions of Covid-19.

Having viewed that TV documentary, I don't think it's in any way unreasonable to think that Covid-19 could have happened without any connection to any of China's virus labs.

I thank forum member "82" for this opportunity to "weigh in" (so to speak) on what to make of the origins of the Covid-19 pathogen.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 06-26-2023).]

fredtoast JUN 26, 08:56 PM

quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

Having viewed that TV documentary, I don't think it's in any way unreasonable to think that Covid-19 could have happened without any connection to any of China's virus labs.





Yes it could have. But the Chinese destroyed a lot of records/evidence and acted very suspiciously. I am as about as liberal as anyone here, but even I know the Chinese are ruthless and can not be trusted at all.

I don't think they did anything on purpose. But I strongly suspect that Covid was accidently released from thier lab.

WonderBoy JUN 27, 12:12 AM

quote
Originally posted by fredtoast:

US economy grew by 5.7% in 2021. Largest growth rate in over 40 years.


<Yawn> And I bet you believe everyone's wages went up also like your media and Briben keep spouting... Yawn. Why the inflation and interest rate adjustments? WTH is wrong with your brain?

Did you own stock in FTX?
82-T/A [At Work] JUN 27, 08:14 AM

quote
Originally posted by fredtoast:

US economy grew by 5.7% in 2021. Largest growth rate in over 40 years.



What you're posting here is misleading and is not telling the whole story. What you're presenting here, most will assume that the U.S. economy was absolutely fantastic in 2021. That is not the case. The economy had taken an enormous dive in 2020 because of COVID and the lock downs. 2020 saw a GDP growth decrease of almost 3% (that is... -2.8% GDP growth rate), from a previous year increase of about 2.3%. When you factor in 2020 and 2021, this was part of the "V-Curve" that Trump constantly boasted about... that the economy was effectively able to recover from its prior losses. Your comment, "Largest growth rate in over 40 years," is very misleading. While YES that's correct, it comes on the heels of one of the largest declines.


Let's look at China now... This is China's GDP growth rate over the prior four years:

China gdp growth rate for 2021 was 8.11%, a 5.87% increase from 2020.
China gdp growth rate for 2020 was 2.24%, a 3.71% decline from 2019.
China gdp growth rate for 2019 was 5.95%, a 0.8% decline from 2018.
China gdp growth rate for 2018 was 6.75%, a 0.2% decline from 2017.


This galvanizes my point. In late 2017, Trump instituted a series of tariffs on China... nearly everyone agreed this was a good idea and he got support from most Democrats. China's economy had taken an immediate hit, you can see a gradual decline from 6.75% down to 2.24%. China's woes were pre-COVID, caused by Trump, and continued to get worse UNTIL COVID. The year following COVID, China's growth immediately rebounded... 8.11%.


Case in point (financially):
- the United States suffered greatly from COVID.
- China benefited greatly from COVID.


.


Information:

US GDP Growth Rate: https://www.macrotrends.net...ates/gdp-growth-rate

U.S. gdp growth rate for 2021 was 5.95%, a 8.71% increase from 2020.
U.S. gdp growth rate for 2020 was -2.77%, a 5.06% decline from 2019.
U.S. gdp growth rate for 2019 was 2.29%, a 0.65% decline from 2018.
U.S. gdp growth rate for 2018 was 2.95%, a 0.7% increase from 2017.


China's Growth Rate: https://www.macrotrends.net...hina/gdp-growth-rate

China gdp growth rate for 2021 was 8.11%, a 5.87% increase from 2020.
China gdp growth rate for 2020 was 2.24%, a 3.71% decline from 2019.
China gdp growth rate for 2019 was 5.95%, a 0.8% decline from 2018.
China gdp growth rate for 2018 was 6.75%, a 0.2% decline from 2017.
82-T/A [At Work] JUN 27, 08:19 AM

quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

Having scrolled through two news reports and two PDF-format documents, I am ready to release an unclassified summary of my findings.


I thank forum member "82" for this opportunity to "weigh in" (so to speak) on what to make of the origins of the Covid-19 pathogen.





The Intercept includes scans of the actual documents showing gain of function testing. It should also show they did SARS Cov2 testing, and bat to human transmission testing. Where's the confusion here?
williegoat JUN 27, 09:10 AM
When I was little, someone explained propaganda to me.

He said, “There was a race. The Russian came in second and the American came in second to last.”

Then he asked, “How many people were in the race?”
rinselberg JUN 27, 10:29 AM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
The Intercept includes scans of the actual documents showing gain of function testing. It should also show they did SARS Cov2 testing, and bat to human transmission testing. Where's the confusion here?


After scrolling through this Intercept again, I still don't think it says that the U.S. was supporting research that involved the specific SARS virus that evolved (or was engineered) to become the SARS-CoV-2 pathogen of the Covid-19 pandemic.

quote
Scientists unanimously told The Intercept that the experiment, which involved infecting genetically engineered mice with “chimeric” hybrid viruses, could not have directly sparked the [Covid-19] pandemic. None of the viruses listed in the write-ups of the experiment are related to the [SARS-CoV-2 virus] closely enough to have evolved into it. Still, several scientists said the new information, which the NIH released after it was sued by The Intercept, points to biosafety concerns, highlighting a general lack of oversight for research on pathogens and raising questions about what other information has not been publicly disclosed.

“As a virologist, I personally think creating chimeras of SARS-related bat coronaviruses that are thought to pose high risk to humans entails unacceptable risks,” said Jesse Bloom, who studies the evolution of viruses at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center.


So... borderline... warrants review and (probably) more restrictions on this kind of research—but not a "smoking Petri dish", in terms of Covid-19.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 06-27-2023).]

82-T/A [At Work] JUN 27, 12:50 PM

quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

After scrolling through this Intercept again, I still don't think it says that the U.S. was supporting research that involved the specific SARS virus that evolved (or was engineered) to become the SARS-CoV-2 pathogen of the Covid-19 pandemic.

So... borderline... warrants review and (probably) more restrictions on this kind of research—but not a "smoking Petri dish", in terms of Covid-19.




Sigh... ok, I know this for a fact. But I need to know... if I go through all of this effort and find the link which corresponds with the appropriate FOIA requests... what are you going to do? I need to know that this is worth my time because I'm quite sure that if I do it, you'll just ignore it or deflect, or something else. Convince me that this is worth my time, despite the fact that you are totally uninterested in searching for this information yourself on the internet?
rinselberg JUN 27, 01:17 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
Sigh... ok, I know this for a fact. But I need to know... if I go through all of this effort and find the link which corresponds with the appropriate FOIA requests... what are you going to do? I need to know that this is worth my time because I'm quite sure that if I do it, you'll just ignore it or deflect, or something else. Convince me that this is worth my time, despite the fact that you are totally uninterested in searching for this information yourself on the internet?


If posting this link, or posting the link and also providing some of the content isn't a rewarding enough prospect for you, in and of itself, and regardless of how I might (or might not) react, I'd say "Don't take the time."

I do play around on the forum (a lot..!) and it might kind of tug at me and I might try to find this document or report myself.

I'm surprised there isn't any image that Google retrieves for "smoking Petri dish".