US appeals court blocks all of Biden student debt relief plan (Page 2/13)
NewDustin JUL 18, 07:30 PM

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Originally posted by blackrams:
Just curious here but, would you happen to be one of those with a Student Loan Debt?


No, the government already paid for my education. Thanks taxpayers
If I did have student loans would that impact the validity of my argument?


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Let me repeat the very questionable part of your post: The likely outcome..............

Sorry, just not agreeing with Likely.


Are you basing that disagreement solely on intuition? If not, could I ask what you are basing it off of?


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Originally posted by Doug85GT:
So you want to force everyone else to pay those student loans off.




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Originally posted by blackrams:
There in lies the problem, there shouldn't be any free money. Nuff Said.



I feel like both of these miss something of the point. The money is already gone; the schools were paid and the federal government owns this debt. The argument here is that canceling those debts would not force anyone else to pay them off; that the economic increase from not insisting on repayment of the loans would generate more stimulus than the government could otherwise create by collecting on them.

In other words, nobody is forcing anybody to pay for anything, everyone saves/makes more money by not going after this debt.

You can reject that argument (as blackrams does above, though I'm still unclear why) but both of these statements seem to outright ignore it.
NewDustin JUL 18, 07:31 PM

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Originally posted by olejoedad:

"There's no such thing as a free lunch"

Not under this misadministration......



There isn't, but there is such a thing responsible tax dollar stewardship. I'm suggesting we discuss whether or not this is it.
blackrams JUL 18, 07:43 PM

quote
Originally posted by NewDustin:


I feel like both of these miss something of the point. The money is already gone; the schools were paid and the federal government owns this debt. The argument here is that canceling those debts would not force anyone else to pay them off; that the economic increase from not insisting on repayment of the loans would generate more stimulus than the government could otherwise create by collecting on them.

In other words, nobody is forcing anybody to pay for anything, everyone saves/makes more money by not going after this debt.

You can reject that argument (as blackrams does above, though I'm still unclear why) but both of these statements seem to outright ignore it.



The incorrect part of your posting is that the money isn't gone, it's to be paid back by the borrower and not the taxpayer. The Federal government doesn't own the debt, the feds administrate the debt. Again, the money isn't gone, if the giveaway program were to be inacted, it adds to the national debt that we the people are responsible for.
Are you going to try and tell me this Debt Relief wasn't intended to buy votes? BTW, you didn't answer my question about whether or not you have a Fed Student Loan.

I went to college using the little bit of money I had saved then joined the Marines. I used the GI Bill to help me go back to college but still had to work full time. If debtors want releif, join up and serve. That would serve several purposes that I could agree with.

------------------
Rams
Learning most of life's lessons the hard way. .
You are only young once but, you can be immature indefinitely.

olejoedad JUL 18, 08:04 PM

quote
Originally posted by blackrams:

(snip)

If debtors want relief, join up and serve. That would serve several purposes that I could agree with.





I see merit in that idea.

Lots of ex-military (including New Dustin) used the GI bill to further their education.

I did too, although I was a military dependant of a deceased serviceman, rather than a member of the military.
NewDustin JUL 18, 08:23 PM

quote
Originally posted by blackrams:
The incorrect part of your posting is that the money isn't gone, it's to be paid back by the borrower and not the taxpayer. The Federal government doesn't own the debt, the feds administrate the debt.


That is factually inaccurate. We are talking about federal student debt, which is owned by the federal government. The feds are also not responsible for the loan administration, the servicers are.


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Again, the money isn't gone, if the giveaway program were to be inacted, it adds to the national debt that we the people are responsible for.


Yes, the money is gone. It was paid to the schools and now exists as debt.
Again, I'm arguing that to the best of our knowledge, the debt would likely not be increased by no longer asking for payment on it. The economic offset looks like it would more than make up for it. If you disagree with that I've already asked you to elaborate on why.


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BTW, you didn't answer my question about whether or not you have a Fed Student Loan.


I did. I said "No" right there. I'm looking at it right now. Are you missing it? I'm not sure how to be more direct than a 2-letter, monosyllabic answer. Nonono? Nooooooooo? Nope-a-roni? Knock Knock, who's there, NO? Total amount of student debt = $0?


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I went to college using the little bit of money I had saved then joined the Marines. I used the GI Bill to help me go back to college but still had to work full time. If debtors want releif, join up and serve. That would serve several purposes that I could agree with.


Hey, that's how I paid for college, except with a lot more failing out of community college classes before joining.

Kind of weird to hear a G.I. Bill-educated Marine arguing against government-funded education...you know that program was largely created to prevent the economic impact of unemployed veterans and that it's entirely unnecessary to the actual provisioning of a military, right? What did you say above there...

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Are you going to try and tell me this Debt Relief wasn't intended to buy votes?


Pot, I'd like you to meet Mr. Kettle.

[This message has been edited by NewDustin (edited 07-18-2024).]

NewDustin JUL 18, 08:28 PM

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Originally posted by olejoedad:
I did too, although I was a military dependant of a deceased serviceman, rather than a member of the military.


I love this aspect of the GI bill, and it warms my heart you were able to use it
olejoedad JUL 18, 09:25 PM
The older I get, the more I appreciate it.
I've got grandkids in the service, it's a good start to a good future.
blackrams JUL 18, 10:14 PM

quote
Originally posted by NewDustin:
Kind of weird to hear a G.I. Bill-educated Marine arguing against government-funded education...you know that program was largely created to prevent the economic impact of unemployed veterans and that it's entirely unnecessary to the actual provisioning of a military, right?

Pot, I'd like you to meet Mr. Kettle.




Regardless of the why the GI Bill was created, It's prepaid by the service member through his/her service and at the point of using the GI Bill, we the people are paying back that service member.

Reference Pot V Kettle:

Seems this is an appropriate response as a reminder in this thread (borrowed from another thread).


quote
Originally posted by NewDustin:

Ya'll are getting awfully wrapped up. I think maybe take a step back, realize that the spirited conversation is great, but that we're all held together by a greater mutual love?

I get why you're feeling attacked here Pat, there's something of a theme to this section of the forum, and I totally get wanting to stand your ground. I just don't know if the juice is worth the squeeze on this one. I don't want to be responsible for making another member feel like we're engaging in something that damages their family member (and I'd be open to an argument that says normalizing a behavior does just that), and from the interactions that we've had it doesn't seem like you do either.

I also question if this is really the time for a gang-up-and-kill series of comments.

Then again I'm still too new here to be lecturing you all even as much as I have already. It's right there in my name.

Also, the ear patches are pretty stupid.



------------------
Rams
Learning most of life's lessons the hard way. .
You are only young once but, you can be immature indefinitely.

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 07-18-2024).]

Doug85GT JUL 18, 10:21 PM

quote
Originally posted by NewDustin:


I feel like both of these miss something of the point. The money is already gone; the schools were paid and the federal government owns this debt. The argument here is that canceling those debts would not force anyone else to pay them off; that the economic increase from not insisting on repayment of the loans would generate more stimulus than the government could otherwise create by collecting on them.

In other words, nobody is forcing anybody to pay for anything, everyone saves/makes more money by not going after this debt.

You can reject that argument (as blackrams does above, though I'm still unclear why) but both of these statements seem to outright ignore it.



Your understanding of money and debt is naive. Where do you think that money came from in the first place? It did not appear out of thin air.

If I borrow $20 from you to buy a McDonalds meal, then you forgive my debt, you are still out $20. By extension if you loan that money out on behalf of the taxpayers, then forgave the debt, the tax payers are still out $20.

No matter what, a nation's debt is always paid back by either taxes or inflation. It never just disappears.
NewDustin JUL 18, 10:51 PM

quote
Originally posted by blackrams:
Regardless of the why the GI Bill was created, It's prepaid by the service member through his/her service and at the point of using the GI Bill, we the people are paying back that service member.


Chapter 33 doesn't require contribution. Even under Chapter 30, you paid in $1,200 and got over $65,000 back. That is not a 'pre-paid service.' I'm not arguing it isn't great with that; I freakin' loved it
The second point doesn't follow for me...why is it ok if we're doing it to pay back military members but not to bolster our economy?


quote
Originally posted by blackrams:
Reference Pot V Kettle:
Seems this is an appropriate response as a reminder in this thread (borrowed from another thread).


I sincerely hope I haven't made anyone feel as though I'm engaging in something damaging to their family member or that I'm involved in an inappropriately timed gang-up attack regarding such. I'm really confused to get that feedback, but if you let me know where/how I did I will do my best to avoid doing so in the future.