Reasons Harris Lost (Page 2/9)
maryjane NOV 06, 01:05 PM

quote
Originally posted by NewDustin:

The US has not been involved in the onset of a World War to this point, and it is not directly involved in any conflict that is angling that direction now. The world has Putin still invading foreign countries, insanity in the middle East, rogue nations like North Korea, Chinese expansionism...it's wild to think it will be the US that drags us in. At worst Trump represents a destabilization of the security infrastructure the US has historically provided, and a clear wakeup call for Europeans that they need to stop relying on the US as their protector/hegemon. All that "the world is gonna end" talk is Chicken Little nonsense.

As for why Harris lost, I think it misses the point to say she was too progressive/woke. I lived in CA where Kamala Harris pushed hard against non-violent drug crimes, backed the police in clear abuse cases, prosecuted victims, and defended abusive prison labor practices. Harris never addressed any of that, continuing the practice Biden started of taking the "woke" vote for granted, and she lost her base because of it. The Democrats are obsessed with Trump, and even after 8 years can't seem to wrap their heads around the point that smugly pointing out they aren't Trump and acting arrogant about his base is a losing strategy.

It's gonna be an interesting 4 years. At least we won't have to deal with shear amount of whining and childish "NUH UH"ing that happened after Trump lost.




Pointing to how California sees/saw Harris makes about as much sense as pointing to how Texas sees her. Last I heard, Harris handily carried California yesterday.

Harris lost because she failed to distance herself from Biden's disastrous policies (The View can take credit for that) and because she focused greatly on "Orange man bad!" rhetoric. That 2nd part may have convinced the RayBs of the world but no one else.

I know alotof people that voted for trump and not one did so because Trump's opponent was female, or because his opponent was black, but that's the hill the left is going to choose to die on because they simply can't see past their own faults.
cliffw NOV 06, 01:21 PM

blackrams NOV 06, 01:29 PM

quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:

I think you are missing my point.



Cliff,
I believe it's all a matter of perspective. Joe didn't miss your point but, you may have missed his.

------------------
Rams
Learning most of life's lessons the hard way. .
You are only young once but, you can be immature indefinitely.

blackrams NOV 06, 01:33 PM

quote
Originally posted by maryjane:


Pointing to how California sees/saw Harris makes about as much sense as pointing to how Texas sees her. Last I heard, Harris handily carried California yesterday.

Harris lost because she failed to distance herself from Biden's disastrous policies (The View can take credit for that) and because she focused greatly on "Orange man bad!" rhetoric. That 2nd part may have convinced the RayBs of the world but no one else.

I know alotof people that voted for trump and not one did so because Trump's opponent was female, or because his opponent was black, but that's the hill the left is going to choose to die on because they simply can't see past their own faults.




Whole heartedly agree. I fully expect the racism and gender slams to begin any time and yet, of all the folks I've spoken to about this election, not one gave a damn about her color or her gender. Her policies and that of Biden's is what sunk her, no one on the winning side believe a word she said due to her history.

Rams
cliffw NOV 06, 01:48 PM

quote
I’m was sitting at the HEB pharmacy waiting on my turn and there’s a lady sitting next to me. I tell her I’ll just wait while the line goes down and I also asked her if she thought all those people were getting blood pressure medicine for 10pm tonight??? She replies No they’ll all be at the liquor store later!!!
LMAO!!!



Found on the internet.
NewDustin NOV 06, 02:28 PM

quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

Pointing to how California sees/saw Harris makes about as much sense as pointing to how Texas sees her. Last I heard, Harris handily carried California yesterday.

Harris lost because she failed to distance herself from Biden's disastrous policies (The View can take credit for that) and because she focused greatly on "Orange man bad!" rhetoric. That 2nd part may have convinced the RayBs of the world but no one else.

I know alotof people that voted for trump and not one did so because Trump's opponent was female, or because his opponent was black, but that's the hill the left is going to choose to die on because they simply can't see past their own faults.



I'm not commenting how Californians feel about Harris, but rather how well she mobilizes Democrats nationally. CA is a given, but turnout there was weak, as was Democrat turnout across the board. These are folks who vote progressive anyway; they aren't being turned off by "wokeness" and they aren't going to share your assessment of Biden's policies as failures. She gave those people nothing tangible to show up for.

I agree that they made the same mistake again of thinking "Orange man bad!" was a good enough argument against Trump, but by my estimation that's where she lost independents.

All that being said, it was a massively bad year for incumbents across states and internationally, and I think that's hard to overlook as well.

I'm not suggesting voting for Trump is racist, or that a significant portion of his base is motivated by express racism/sexism/bigotry, and I don't think that's how the majority of Democrats are responding. A lot of what's coming out of "the Left" right now appears to be self-reflective...a "how could we have let this happen?" more than a "the world's turned racist!" While I share a lot of folks' surprise that someone can openly have the character/history/moral makeup Trump has and still be a viable candidate for President, I don't think that surprise is valuable or salient to the conversation, and I don't think it really has anything to do with why people vote for him.

[This message has been edited by NewDustin (edited 11-06-2024).]

theBDub NOV 06, 02:35 PM
I've been considering this since last night, when it was pretty clear what the result was going to be. My take so far is that Harris lost for two primary reasons:

1) Voters were apathetic to Harris due to not getting to know her through a typical primary season. She then decided to use the short amount of time she had to not rock the boat - she wanted to keep her Democratic coalition while gaining moderates and middling Republicans by not being specific on policy. I think apathy came with a lack of a clearly defined alternative to Trump. If she had either gone through a typical primary or had she been more specific in answering questions in her few very public media interviews, I think she could have avoided the bleeding of her base and likely won.

2) Democrats have been using "men" as a catch-all enemy for the past few election cycles (possibly decades though my memory is a bit fuzzy on how long it has been happening). They've pushed men away and blamed them for just about everything under the sun. As men were disenfranchised from the Democratic Party, they were re-enfranchised to the Right through alternative social channels and podcasts (Democrats even make fun of these, calling them "dude bro pods"). While Republicans energized new voters in new channels, Democrats used those same channels to... continue pushing men away. I think this is a huge contributor, though I don't really see many people talking about it.
olejoedad NOV 06, 02:39 PM

quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:


I think you are missing my point.






blackrams NOV 06, 02:40 PM

quote
Originally posted by NewDustin:

I'm not commenting how Californians feel about Harris, but rather how well she mobilizes Democrats nationally. CA is a given, but turnout there was weak, as was Democrat turnout across the board. These are folks who vote progressive anyway; they aren't being turned off by "wokeness" and they aren't going to share your assessment of Biden's policies as failures. She gave those people nothing tangible to show up for.

I agree that they made the same mistake again of thinking "Orange man bad!" was a good enough argument against Trump, but by my estimation that's where she lost independents.

All that being said, it was a massively bad year for incumbents across states and internationally, and I think that's hard to overlook as well.




While in the Marine Corps, I was station in CA and had a really hard time understanding the culture there. Of course, that was Viet Nam and post Viet Nam so, that may explain some of it but still contend that much of California is inhabited by a cult thought process. One that believes you can have your cake and eat it to. Unfortunately, many Californians are moving out to places like Utah, Colorado, Texas and Arizona and bringing their political values with them. I've got a tee shirt that says Don't California My Mississippi. Looking for one that says the same thing except the state being Tennessee.

Reference incumbents, I don't have the actual numbers but, I'm thinking Democrat incumbents felt the sting more than Republicans. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Rams
bonaduce NOV 06, 03:27 PM
Well the blame game has started. It's Bidens fault she lost. Already blaming an old white dude.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/...blame-154953701.html

Conspiracy theorists are saying the Dems wanted the loss so that they can concentrate on Shapiro (Pennsylvania), saying they didn't want to use him on a losing campaign, hence they picked Walzt. Again this is a theory.