Concerning Roe (Page 3/3)
2.5 JUL 21, 01:26 PM

quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

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So what is the middle-of-the-road philosophy that would defeat the "extremists"?

Extremist I assume being those who say "don't kill babies", and those who say "I'll kill em cause I feel like it".
rinselberg JUL 21, 03:29 PM

quote
Originally posted by 2.5:
So what is the middle-of-the-road philosophy that would defeat the "extremists"? Extremist I assume being those who say "don't kill babies", and those who say "I'll kill em cause I feel like it".


I'm not an expert. I can't say exactly. Nor is this an opportune time for me to engage in any online research.

First, I would look online to see if there already is some "middle of the road" proposal for national legislation that has been outlined.

I think it's fair to ask why Democrats and other "friends of Roe" have not pushed harder for national legislation. "Fats" had an idea about that (earlier in this thread) and I won't say that he is wrong.

However, I wonder about the laws that are being passed by the Republican-led states. Are these Republicans going overboard—out of control, so to speak—or is that just a mirage that's being created by the likes of MSNBC?

Think of the recent case that was highlighted where a 10-year old girl was impregnated by rape and had to cross over from Ohio to Indiana to have an abortion.

Should a girl that young ever be required to carry a pregnancy to birth? Even if there were some malfeasance of the girl, herself? I would think that it's an especially high risk pregnancy (medically) for both the girl herself and the anticipated newly born child. Just because of the very young age of the girl.

This (YouTube) is a 7-minute broadcast segment that aired last night on MSNBC.
https://youtu.be/K1zypvwfvgM

It highlights two new online print media reports:

"Women Face Risks as Doctors Struggle With Medical Exceptions on Abortion"

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Of the 13 states with trigger bans, all make exceptions for abortions to save the life of the mother. But what defines a medical emergency?


J. David Goodman and Azeen Ghorayshi for the New York Times; July 20, 2022
https://www.nytimes.com/202...ve-mothers-life.html

"With abortion access on the line in Louisiana, lawyers debate in court if ban is ambiguous"
Sam Karlin for The Advocate; updated July 18, 2022.
https://www.theadvocate.com...b2-1ff4e4f596d6.html

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 07-21-2022).]

olejoedad JUL 21, 05:18 PM
rinse, here in the area I live in, and nearly everyone I know feels pretty much the same way.

Roe should have been overturned because it wasn't legislated into law.

The Legislators should figure it out.

Abortion should be available.

Abortion shouldn't be a means of birth control.

Abortion is a serious matter as it involves the destruction of a Human Being.

There should be some way to figure this out calmly, intelligently and reasonably.

It's important to elect good people in the coming midterms, and vote.
OldGuyinaGT JUL 21, 06:56 PM
(line spacing changed)

quote
rinse, here in the area I live in, and nearly everyone I know feels pretty much the same way.
Roe should have been overturned because it wasn't legislated into law.
The Legislators should figure it out.
Abortion should be available.
Abortion shouldn't be a means of birth control.
Abortion is a serious matter as it involves the destruction of a Human Being.
There should be some way to figure this out calmly, intelligently and reasonably.
It's important to elect good people in the coming midterms, and vote.



While I can't say I agree with everything olejoedad has ever said (here or in Technical) I do agree with " nearly everyone he knows" where he lives. Unfortunately, I can't say the same for at least a lot of the people in the area where I live, since I'm in Colorado, which has about the most pro-abortion legislation on the planet.

When I read that about 1 in 5 pregnancies in the U.S are terminated through abortion, I did not believe that. I was disappointed almost to depression when I did some research and found out that by most measures, that percentage is actually correct. That being the case, I absolutely do believe that a large percentage of these are after-the-fact avoidance of unwanted children. From the NIH -

The reasons (for an abortion) most frequently cited were that having a child would interfere with a woman's education, work or ability to care for dependents (74%); that she could not afford a baby now (73%); and that she did not want to be a single mother or was having relationship problems (48%). Nearly four in 10 women said they had completed their childbearing, and almost one-third were not ready to have a child.

I am a married white male with two adult children, so perhaps this is easy for me to say, but yeah, those numbers add up to termination of children that would otherwise simply "be in the way'. When did human life become so cheap that these abortions are preferable to whatever inconvenience they might cause to an existing life? How is there any valid argument that effective contraception would avoid so many abortions/

What I find most troubling is that the most vocal pro-abortion activists/protestors sound as if pregnant women (and society at large) should want and prefer abortions. My own feelings on the matter aside, even if a woman decides that abortion is her best option, does any woman ever really want one? Maybe feels like she must have one, but likes the idea? It seems that most pro-abortionists think abortion should be the first best option, rather than the last best option?

Regarding the overturn of Roe, the way I see it, this was a correction of judicial overreach some 50 years ago. Again, this is not with any regard to my personal feelings on the matter. But why are the pro-abortionists so violently (and illegally) attacking everything from churches to pregnancy clinics to SCOTUS? This is even happening here in Colorado, where the state has very neatly sidestepped all abortion restrictions and limits. The responsibility has merely been returned to the states, who may or may not restrict/limit abortion, based on the actions of the state legislatures and the voters. And regarding federal law, Associate Justice Neil Gorsuch (who happens to be from CO, and has only avoided more severe pillorying because the more rabid protestors are focusing on Justice Kavanaugh) said it best:

"Originalism says the rights of the Constitution that were given in 1789 are the rights you enjoy today and they can never be taken -- and if you want to add to them, we the people add to them,"
"I think the Constitution is one of the greatest documents in all of human history and deserves our respect -- and if you want to change it, don't ask five people in Washington to change it for you,."
"There's a process -- it's called the amendment process. It's actually there in the Constitution and you can do it -- and it has been done. It's been done 27 times."

f the people - not a violent and vocal faction, but a majority of the people - want different federal law than currently exists, why not do that instead of throwing a collective and destructive fit? If this does not net you the outcome you desire, I think it must be remembered that "The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few. Or the one."

To me, the Supreme Court is and must be sacrosanct. The Separation of Powers and the roles of the Legislative and Executive branches are and must be sacrosanct. But all require members to do their jobs to the best of their abilities and within their respective roles. It is my opinion that the Supreme Court is imperfect, but is very much closer to correctly and genuinely fulfilling its role than ore the other branches. The Legislative Branch is not meaningfully legislating, at least not to the will of its constituents, and the Executive Branch is not tending to the implementation and execution of existing law.

Finally, with respect to most previous and all future elections -

"Be careful what you wish for."
williegoat JUL 22, 01:34 PM
So in the end, it seems that we will never hear, that no one really cares who leaked the decision and caused so much chaos. I want to know who and why. I think it is important because it is part of the constant manipulation of public opinion. Someone keeps steering this "ship of state" into the rocks and we all deserve to know who and why.
2.5 JUL 22, 03:24 PM

quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

There should be some way to figure this out calmly, intelligently and reasonably.

.



Exactly why this is the rhetoric of today, it divides us: ...the time is now, quick rush out and make rash decisions, get angry, blame your neighbor etc.
olejoedad JUL 22, 06:38 PM

quote
Originally posted by williegoat:

So in the end, it seems that we will never hear, that no one really cares who leaked the decision and caused so much chaos. I want to know who and why. I think it is important because it is part of the constant manipulation of public opinion. Someone keeps steering this "ship of state" into the rocks and we all deserve to know who and why.



It was RBG
Rickady88GT JUL 22, 07:01 PM

quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:


It was RBG



She actually disagreed with the verbiage of the decision.she was in favor of abortion, but didn't like how the decision was ultimately worded. It's as if she knew that it was worded in such a way that made it vulnerable to appeal.
olejoedad JUL 22, 09:46 PM
Sorry, I forgot this....
WonderBoy JUL 23, 10:55 AM

My new t-shirt just arrived. Wish they offered it in white, oh well. We may not be endangered, but it's amazing >/< half our population doesn't value pre developing human lives, nor post developing young human lives. Nor do some a-holes have the honesty to admit they have no personal responsibility or the mental capacity.

Screw each other first, think about it later. The world has been going this route on an end less loop.
Leftist utopia:
Assault, snort, inject, inhale, f**k, we'll make force those that don't to pay for it and submit. But you can't eat this or drink too much of that.

What's wrong with this mindset?

Enjoy MiKhelob Ultra, stay thirsty.