Reasons Harris Lost (Page 3/9) blackrams NOV 06, 03:33 PM quote Originally posted by theBDub: I've been considering this since last night, when it was pretty clear what the result was going to be. My take so far is that Harris lost for two primary reasons: 1) Voters were apathetic to Harris due to not getting to know her through a typical primary season. She then decided to use the short amount of time she had to not rock the boat - she wanted to keep her Democratic coalition while gaining moderates and middling Republicans by not being specific on policy. I think apathy came with a lack of a clearly defined alternative to Trump. If she had either gone through a typical primary or had she been more specific in answering questions in her few very public media interviews, I think she could have avoided the bleeding of her base and likely won. 2) Democrats have been using "men" as a catch-all enemy for the past few election cycles (possibly decades though my memory is a bit fuzzy on how long it has been happening). They've pushed men away and blamed them for just about everything under the sun. As men were disenfranchised from the Democratic Party, they were re-enfranchised to the Right through alternative social channels and podcasts (Democrats even make fun of these, calling them "dude bro pods"). While Republicans energized new voters in new channels, Democrats used those same channels to... continue pushing men away. I think this is a huge contributor, though I don't really see many people talking about it. I'm sure there are many reasons Harris didn't win but, as I see it, her failure to break ranks with an unpopular President and specifically say what she would do differently cost her a lot of votes. Her professional political career history was almost directly opposed to what she was campaigning on. This led to a great amount of distrust, Senator Sanders (someone who I rarely agree with) stated it bluntly and correctly a while back when he said, she's saying what she needs to say to get elected (or something close to that). It's pretty clear, she did not gain the trust of the majority of voting citizens. The lack of a primary may have had something to do with it but, when hand picked by the Dem leadership, those true to the faith will follow. NewDustin NOV 06, 03:35 PM quote Originally posted by blackrams: While in the Marine Corps, I was station in CA and had a really hard time understanding the culture there. Of course, that was Viet Nam and post Viet Nam so, that may explain some of it but still contend that much of California is inhabited by a cult thought process. One that believes you can have your cake and eat it to. Unfortunately, many Californians are moving out to places like Utah, Colorado, Texas and Arizona and bringing their political values with them. I've got a tee shirt that says Don't California My Mississippi. Looking for one that says the same thing except the state being Tennessee. Reference incumbents, I don't have the actual numbers but, I'm thinking Democrat incumbents felt the sting more than Republicans. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Rams I think a lot of that depends where you're at in CA. I lived mostly in the Central Valley, and that's all very conservative farming communities. Like the rest of the country, I think it's more of a city/rural thing. We were targeted with a lot of completely tone deaf, let-them-eat-cake type policies dictated from the much more populated regions of the state, and I absolutely get that living-in-a-cult take from San Francisco politics. "Don't California my Mississippi" seems a like something one of the "Thank God for Mississippi" states would say. Having moved from CA to NV several years ago for non-political/financial reasons, I can say there are considerably worse ways to run a state than what CA gets up to. Then again, I'm something of a voting conscientious objector, so it's not like I bring the CA with me anyway. Patrick NOV 06, 03:39 PM quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: Honestly, I can't believe we’re at a point where someone who’s famous for bending the truth, self-obsessed to a spectacular degree, and very likely to drag us all into WWIII can actually be elected president. I feel your description of Trump's traits are if anything, way too moderate. In regards to him dragging us all into WWIII, I don't believe he'd be the one directly leading the charge. It might more so be his inactions on that front that would eventually contribute to a major war developing. And why would he go that route? It would be an incredible boom (pardon the pun) to the American economy, with arms sales to all the involved countries. There's a method to Trump's madness... and it's all about power, and making money... for himself. It seems unfathomable that the American people (who voted for him) can't comprehend this... but perhaps like fish in the sea, they're totally oblivious of being immersed in water... or in this case, immersed in a deception. The echo chamber here will just laugh this off. Fine, they're feeling pretty good about themselves today... but I hope we all still have something to laugh about four years from now. blackrams NOV 06, 03:44 PM quote Originally posted by NewDustin: "Don't California my Mississippi" seems a like something one of the "Thank God for Mississippi" states would say. Having moved from CA to NV several years ago for non-political/financial reasons, I can say there are considerably worse ways to run a state than what CA gets up to. Then again, I'm something of a voting conscientious objector, so it's not like I bring the CA with me anyway. In that I don't know you personally, I'll accept your description of yourself. But, look at how Colorado and several other states have changed since the Great Migration of Californians to other states began. It sure looks like they are bringing their politics with them. Rams NewDustin NOV 06, 03:46 PM quote Originally posted by blackrams: I'm sure there are many reasons Harris didn't win but, as I see it, her failure to break ranks with an unpopular President and specifically say what she would do differently cost her a lot of votes. Her professional political career history was almost directly opposed to what she was campaigning on. This led to a great amount of distrust, Senator Sanders (someone who I rarely agree with) stated it bluntly and correctly a while back when he said, she's saying what she needs to say to get elected (or something close to that). It's pretty clear, she did not gain the trust of the majority of voting citizens. The lack of a primary may have had something to do with it but, when hand picked by the Dem leadership, those true to the faith will follow. This is a solid take, though I don't think the Democratic line-toers are necessarily going to show up for a lackluster candidate. I still think they'd have been better off running running that space-faring thumb. blackrams NOV 06, 03:48 PM quote Originally posted by Patrick: I feel your description of Trump's traits are if anything, way too moderate. but I hope we all still have something to laugh about four years from now. That might depend on, correction if, Canada starts paying their true share of NATO membership. Instead of riding the coattails of the US. Rams blackrams NOV 06, 03:50 PM quote Originally posted by NewDustin: This is a solid take, though I don't think the Democratic line-toers are necessarily going to show up for a lackluster candidate. I still think they'd have been better off running running that space-faring thumb. I tend to agree, he would have been a more believable candidate. Just my opinion. Rams Patrick NOV 06, 03:51 PM quote Originally posted by blackrams: ...the Great Migration of Californians to other states began. It sure looks like they are bringing their politics with them. I thought the "migration" from California was due to right wing Californians being fed up with the left wing policies of elected California politicians. So... what exactly are you suggesting? Patrick NOV 06, 03:57 PM quote Originally posted by Patrick: That might depend on, correction if, Canada starts paying their true share of NATO membership. Instead of riding the coattails of the US. I don't see how that has anything to do with what I stated... but hey, you got your shot in against Canada. NewDustin NOV 06, 04:00 PM quote Originally posted by blackrams: In that I don't know you personally, I'll accept your description of yourself. But, look at how Colorado and several other states have changed since the Great Migration of Californians to other states began. It sure looks like they are bringing their politics with them. Rams Other than that I abstain from voting I'm not sure what other description you'd need to trust, and that would be an extremely strange thing for me to lie about in this context. There really has not been an exodus out of CA outside of historical norms. I think there's a lot of perception bias that happens when we experience political change, and it's simpler to externalize those shifts. You list Colorado as an example, but the growth in liberals there is generally young, home-grown, college educated Coloradans. Colorado has actually gotten more folks moving in from Texas and Florida than California. What we did do there, and something I'm absolutely contributing to here, is blowing you all's real estate markets up.