Radical leftists destroy everything they touch... (Page 1/32)
82-T/A [At Work] AUG 02, 08:13 AM
Another example to the point that radical Democrats destroy everything they touch: https://www.jamesgmartin.ce...-over-accreditation/


BLUF / TL;DR: The State of Florida is suing the Department of Education, et-all. There are a few arguments:


First, and foremost, there is a delegation problem. Under the Constitution, all legislative authority is given to Congress. It and it alone is empowered to make laws and may not delegate that authority to others. But that is what it has done with regard to eligibility to receive federal student-aid money

- I don't think this one will stand. I have other issues with it, but the Department of Education is under the Executive Branch which was created by legislation passed by the Legislative Branch. There could be an argument that perhaps the Executive Branch has over-executed the authority given to it by the law, which is the argument being made here, but I'm not seeing this being the point that wins. The only other case I can think of is when the Supreme Court ruled last year on the EPA's authority to restrict carbon emissions... stating essentially the same thing. This does set precedence, and it's possible that the DOE could in fact lose on this same condition. I just think it's unlikely. The slight difference here is that they've authorized a private entity to distribute "federal" funds, and I can think of no similar example except perhaps charities?


Another argument Florida makes is that the accreditation system violates the Constitution’s Appointments Clause. Under the Constitution, officials who “exercise significant authority pursuant to the laws of the United States” must be appointed in a legally prescribed manner. The people in accrediting agencies have not been so appointed.

- I see this one being successful. I'm not aware of any standards that the DOE has officially set on their own for conditions of the student loan funds... there could be, I'm just not aware of them. But this is a solid argument. That said, this could easily be solved with a more clear directive from the Secretary of the DOE, and it would nullify that part of the lawsuit.


And third, the accreditation system violates the Constitution’s Spending Clause, which allows Congress to spend money and place conditions upon its receipt. The Supreme Court has held that any conditions must be unambiguous. The problem is that accreditors impose ambiguous and changing conditions upon colleges and universities.

- Same as the argument above. This could be "cured" in effect, and render this argument null and void.


Couple of other thoughts... and to the point of my subject title. The accreditation goal was a private bi-partisan effort to create a set of standards for a good formal education. This worked quite well for a long time. Democrats have now politicized it by injecting their ideologies into these accreditation boards (through pressure from Government), just as they did with actual Federal organizations such as NASA under Obama (which is why NASA is so far behind today) and the IRS also under Obama, and most of the Federal organizations under Biden ... which fosters mistrust. Democrats view these agencies not as an establishment for the people, but as an action arm for their political agenda and ideology. In effect... Stalinist behavior. All of this erodes the trust in Government (which is at an all-time high ... mistrust), and it destroys the very institutions that were built years earlier that were done so with good intent.

I think if the lawsuit is successful, and the accreditation boards will no longer define what schools are eligible for Federal student loans... which will turn into a complete mess making loans available for literally anything under the sun, such as certifications, to clown school.

More apropos, the Federal government should never have even bothered to take ownership of student loans... this should have always remained private. We always say... the Government doesn't solve problems, but it intentionally creates new problems for which it then promises a solution to. This "student loan" crisis is directly as a result of the Federal government taking ownership/consolidation and regulation of student loans, all of which USED to be done by private companies. I think there are only two private companies that are still allowed to offer student loans, and that was because a senator refused to approve the bill that Obama would sign, unless they allowed these loan companies to remain.

It's OK if politicians do nothing, because the Government is not the solution to market-problems... it only creates more problems, more turmoil, and more disruption.


My opinion, the Federal government should get out of the student loan business... and allow the private sector to again manage and own this. The banks will become competitive and offer better and lower rates for students. If the Federal government wants to ensure that underprivileged students have the opportunity for student loans, then they can offer THAT with a family income disparity. But the Federal government shouldn't "socialize" it by forcing everyone under the same umbrella (and to their detriment) just to ensure that the lower income families are paid for. This is something that the Federal government should be reasonably responsible for paying for in the budget, which should not be running deficits. One of the best economies we ever had, was a centrist willing Democrat president, and a Republican-majority House and Senate.
Vintage-Nut AUG 02, 08:47 AM
Another example to the point that radical Democrats destroy everything they touch is California!
olejoedad AUG 02, 09:25 AM
Don't forget Michigan, Illinois and New York....
williegoat AUG 02, 09:46 AM
the executive branch

the entertainment industry

[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 08-02-2023).]

rinselberg AUG 02, 10:25 AM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
I think if the lawsuit is successful, and the accreditation boards will no longer define what schools are eligible for Federal student loans... which will turn into a complete mess making loans available for literally anything under the sun, such as certifications, to clown school.


Don't you mean "if the lawsuit fails..."..?

The lawsuit in which the State of Florida is the plaintiff.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 08-02-2023).]

ray b AUG 02, 11:29 AM
RWNJ will lose big time

feds will beat rhonda like a rented mule
82-T/A [At Work] AUG 02, 11:35 AM

quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

Don't you mean "if the lawsuit fails..."..?

The lawsuit in which the State of Florida is the plaintiff.





No, I meant what I said. If the lawsuit fails... then nothing happens.

A potential negative ramification of the lawsuit succeeding could be that the government loses the ability to clearly define where the money can be used... thus allowing it to go for pretty much anything. Potentially this doesn't succeed, and as a result the government cures the problem by more clearly defining how the money is to be used, further eliminating discretion of the academic accreditation boards.

The problem is that the academic boards have been politicized, and are often doing things (at the behest of Democrats) to support policies that have more to do with DEI, and less to do with upholding academic standards. THIS is the reason that Ron DeSantis is bringing the lawsuit in the first place... but as I said, it could potentially disrupt a questionably successful partnership with the DOE and the universities.

But perhaps... and this is just me thinking out loud, maybe that's for the best, maybe this is what we want? The government should get out of the student loan program with Federal funds. There are much better ways for the government to ensure that the underprivileged have equal opportunity to educational loans. This can be done through reasonable regulation. There are many situations in which the government places regulations for which they offer tax incentives for PRIVATELY managed opportunity. For example, the 529 College Investment program. It's Federally regulated, but designated to the private sector to manage, and with private investment. Works surprisingly well.

We just need to get politics out of education. I realize the left intentionally uses this as a means of indoctrination, but this damages academic institutions... like what's happening now. Schools got together under their own volition to create standards for accreditation... much in the same way that the banks got together to set a standard for credit cards under PCI DSS. All of this was done by private sector through gentle "encouragement" by the Federal government (threat to manage it themselves), and it worked well... until the Government started using the standards boards as a means to push a DEI and Marxist agenda.


Like the Citizens United lawsuit... unintended consequences.
fredtoast AUG 02, 02:43 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

We just need to get politics out of education.



Then you must hate DeSantis. All he is doing is trying to use his influence to control what is taught in schools and eliminating anything that does not fit his political agenda.
82-T/A [At Work] AUG 02, 03:39 PM

quote
Originally posted by fredtoast:

Then you must hate DeSantis. All he is doing is trying to use his influence to control what is taught in schools and eliminating anything that does not fit his political agenda.




Vertical Federalism... I think the states have the right to represent in the image of their culture and constituency. It's the Federal government that I don't think should have the right to impose it's values on the states, because we have a document which limits what the government can do.

But DeSantis is a product of the majority-Republican middle-class and wealthy voters of Florida. He represents in large part how we want society in Florida to remain. Constitutional carry, freedom of speech, and restrictions on abortion... and the freedom for parents to control the upbringing and education of their children. Likewise, to guide and direct the education of the top-notch universities in Florida (UF, FSU, FIU, UM, FAU, etc.).

DeSantis' approval rating is about 59-62% in Florida, depending on the poll you look at. This correctly accounts for the make-up of Republicans vs. Democrats. But it gets a lot higher when you break down the individual work he's done. On the environment, DeSantis has been spectacular, and he gets really, really high marks on protecting (and reversing the decades of damage of) Florida's environment.

Florida has a population just under 23 million. There are 750k more registered Republicans in Florida than Democrats now. Only 14 million of those 23 million are actually registered to vote. So mathematically, this is insignificant in a 23 million population... so comparing a 750k lean to 14 million barely makes it 55% leaning Republican if we're split down the middle (and not counting Independents). So a 59-62%, so he realistically has most independents, and some Democrats on his side.

In 2020, DeSantis barely won the election against Andrew Gillum, by less than 1%. Gillum has since gone on to have overdosed with gay prostitutes in a hotel room, and is now serving jail time... so that ended his career after the fact. But DeSantis has really won over the state... especially since prior Republican governors rarely got over 50% approval, ever...
ray b AUG 02, 04:23 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
Vertical Federalism... I think the states have the right to represent in the image of their culture and constituency. It's the Federal government that I don't think should have the right to impose it's values on the states, because we have a document which limits what the government can do.

But DeSantis is a product of the majority-Republican middle-class and wealthy voters of Florida. He represents in large part how we want society in Florida to remain. Constitutional carry, freedom of speech, and restrictions on abortion... and the freedom for parents to control the upbringing and education of their children. Likewise, to guide and direct the education of the top-notch universities in Florida (UF, FSU, FIU, UM, FAU, etc.).

DeSantis' approval rating is about 59-62% in Florida, depending on the poll you look at. This correctly accounts for the make-up of Republicans vs. Democrats. But it gets a lot higher when you break down the individual work he's done. On the environment, DeSantis has been spectacular, and he gets really, really high marks on protecting (and reversing the decades of damage of) Florida's environment.

Florida has a population just under 23 million. There are 750k more registered Republicans in Florida than Democrats now. Only 14 million of those 23 million are actually registered to vote. So mathematically, this is insignificant in a 23 million population... so comparing a 750k lean to 14 million barely makes it 55% leaning Republican if we're split down the middle (and not counting Independents). So a 59-62%, so he realistically has most independents, and some Democrats on his side.

In 2020, DeSantis barely won the election against Andrew Gillum, by less than 1%. Gillum has since gone on to have overdosed with gay prostitutes in a hotel room, and is now serving jail time... so that ended his career after the fact. But DeSantis has really won over the state... especially since prior Republican governors rarely got over 50% approval, ever...



HE WORKED HARD TO EARN THE NAME DE-SATAN
only the most hard core of THE Gop SUPPORT HIM

the non Gop hate his evil actions
every sick stupid ACT of the RWNJ'S HATE and FEAR
rhonda over does TO THE MAX

btw still missing thousands of teachers
no sane person wants to teach under the nazi rules of his
his BS on slaves is a national disgrace
as is his ideas on gays the mouse the laws
his caving into the ins lobby
his immigration BS stunts

HE RUNS THE STATE ON HATE
NOT PROGRESS OR HOPE