The upcoming GOP debate (Page 1/2)
williegoat AUG 18, 02:44 PM
Are you planing on watching?

Who do you think will bomb out and who do you think will become a star?

I expect it will be a match between Vivek Ramaswamy and Tim Scott, but I want to see Nikki Haley do more that "show up".

Christy and Pence will become fodder for comedians and radio talk show hosts.

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"Ain't no rest for the whiskers."

82-T/A [At Work] AUG 19, 06:28 PM

quote
Originally posted by williegoat:

Are you planing on watching?

Who do you think will bomb out and who do you think will become a star?

I expect it will be a match between Vivek Ramaswamy and Tim Scott, but I want to see Nikki Haley do more that "show up".

Christy and Pence will become fodder for comedians and radio talk show hosts.





Your sentiments are exactly the same as mine... which I suspect most Republicans also feel the same way.
cliffw AUG 20, 08:25 AM

quote
Originally posted by williegoat:
Are you planing on watching?



Yes. I am an American. I even watch the Democratic debates. I lean away of "progressive democrat" but I am not anti democrat.


quote
Originally posted by williegoat:
Who do you think will bomb out and who do you think will become a star?



Don't much care. How that happens to anyone is more interesting to me.


quote
Originally posted by williegoat:
I expect it will be a match between Vivek Ramaswamy and Tim Scott, but I want to see Nikki Haley do more that "show up".



I like both of them equally well enough. Tim Scott really impressed me when he went on "The View" and shut down those partisan hosts, politely. The audience booed and the hosts told the audience to shut up. A remark Tim Scott replied to was the left's preaching about how rigged it is against the black men, and all other minorities. That they have no chance in life. Tim Scott responded "that's a terrible thing to tell people. I am an example of 'you can be anything you want to be." he has a book out. "From Cotton to Congress In Two Generations".


quote
Originally posted by williegoat:
Christy and Pence will become fodder for comedians and radio talk show hosts.



Willie, they all will. That's the Democrat way, of which main stream media is.
fredtoast AUG 22, 11:22 PM
The debates during the primaries are usually a joke (for both parties). They are full of extremist positions that the candidates know will not carry over to the General Election.

I think the Republicans best shot to win the General Election would be Tim Scott. He does not seem as bat **** crazy as DeSantis. Ramaswamy is a smooth talker when giving speeches, but he is already fumbling some interviews. I don't see a lot of substance to him.

Nikki Haley always struck me as a good option for the Republicans, but she has tried before and never gotten any traction. A ticket with her and Scott would have a woman, a Sikh first generation immigrant, and a black. Sounds more like a Democrat ticket. Also interesting that Nikki Haley was the Governor of South Carolina who appointed Tim Scott to the Senate seat vacated when Jim DeMint retired.

I am still praying that the rabid Trump base will split the party and ruin the whole process for the Republicans. The GOP has to get over Trump, but the candidates are afraid of insulting his base. So maybe they will be sure to keep Chris Christie in the race just to be the attack dog on Trump. Chistie is intelligent and a savvy politician, but he always seemed a little sleezy to me. Maybe it is just a subconscious reaction to him being from New Jersey.

My dream is that the Republican party dumps Trump and he runs as a third party candidate. This would insure a victory for the Democrats candidate. And Trump loves the attention so much he would not care if he cost the Republicans the election.
82-T/A [At Work] AUG 23, 08:09 AM

quote
Originally posted by cliffw:

Yes. I am an American. I even watch the Democratic debates. I lean away of "progressive democrat" but I am not anti democrat.




I'm interested to see if JFK Jr. is allowed to debate. From everything I can see, the DNC really does not want JFK jr. involved at all. Seems like they're giving him the same treatment as they gave Bernie Sanders when Clinton ran in 2016.

I see JFK jr as a lot like a return to the 1992, 1996, Bill Clinton type of Democrat... so I would very much like to see this. If the Republican candidate is not Trump, and it's not DeSantis ... but JFK Jr wins the Democrat primary, I will most likely vote for JFK. It will likely result in a total sea-change of future Democrat voters.
cliffw AUG 23, 09:32 AM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
I'm interested to see if JFK Jr. is allowed to debate. From everything I can see, the DNC really does not want JFK jr. involved at all. Seems like they're giving him the same treatment as they gave Bernie Sanders when Clinton ran in 2016.

I see JFK jr as a lot like a return to the 1992, 1996, Bill Clinton type of Democrat... so I would very much like to see this. If the Republican candidate is not Trump, and it's not DeSantis ... but JFK Jr wins the Democrat primary, I will most likely vote for JFK. It will likely result in a total sea-change of future Democrat voters.



It is being said Biden won't debate, and his excuse is because Trump didnt.

JFK Jr. is an interesting choice I would consider. I would like to hear more from him. I agree. The DNC wants someone who will tow the DNC line.

I am interested in hearing from DeSantis, Nicki Haley, Tim Scott, and Ramaswamy. No one else.
cliffw AUG 23, 09:46 AM

quote
Originally posted by fredtoast:
The debates during the primaries are usually a joke (for both parties). They are full of extremist positions that the candidates know will not carry over to the General Election.



During the primaries and the general, the debates are not debates. A moderator asking a question, giving the person asked one minute, and others 30 seconds to respond, is not a debate.


quote
Originally posted by fredtoast:
I am still praying that the rabid Trump base will split the party and ruin the whole process for the Republicans. The GOP has to get over Trump, but the candidates are afraid of insulting his base.
My dream is that the Republican party dumps Trump and he runs as a third party candidate. This would insure a victory for the Democrats candidate. And Trump loves the attention so much he would not care if he cost the Republicans the election.



[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 08-23-2023).]

82-T/A [At Work] AUG 23, 09:49 AM

quote
Originally posted by cliffw:

It is being said Biden won't debate, and his excuse is because Trump didnt.

JFK Jr. is an interesting choice I would consider. I would like to hear more from him. I agree. The DNC wants someone who will tow the DNC line.

I am interested in hearing from DeSantis, Nicki Haley, Tim Scott, and Ramaswamy. No one else.




JFK Jr has some interesting policies... the difference is that (at least in talk) he's been very moderated about his views. Make no mistake, he has some aggressive views on things. Environmentally, he wholly believes in Global Warming... not making a statement here about my opinions, but he does view a desire / need to quickly solve this challenge. He views alternative energy sources from coal and natural gas as critical. BUT, and here's where "common sense" comes in, he does not think we should be destroying our economy and making stupid decisions. He is not a fan of nuclear power, but views nuclear power as a means to get off fossil fuels more quickly. And he recognizes the issues with wind power, and the supply chain concerns with solar power (the need to make panels here, and not exporting all our money to China).

His views on almost everything take this kind of measured approach. Make no mistake, he IS a Democrat... so his views still align entirely with the Democrat party of say... ~2005. But, he views addressing all of these things from a measured approach.

The view from most of us, as well as those on the right, is that things have gotten totally radicalized under Biden (started under Obama). Democrats literally take any position that they think is anti-right, and will create positions simply for the benefit of having SOMETHING political to pit against the right. As many moderate Democrats have said, like Bill Maher, the left is the part of crazies right now. And I think JFK Jr. would really shift that approach.

To be honest, this is really much more how I align... I'm for tariffs, which is not what Republicans support. I'm anti-death penalty, which goes against Republicans. I support a measured approach to economic interaction from the government. Not necessarily the laissez-faire approach that Republicans and Libertarians typically support. I also greatly dislike Modern Monetary Theory that both parties have essentially adopted for no other reason than it's so bad that it doesn't matter anymore, and that it's a means for getting free stuff to your party's interests.
theBDub AUG 23, 02:47 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
JFK Jr has some interesting policies... the difference is that (at least in talk) he's been very moderated about his views. Make no mistake, he has some aggressive views on things. Environmentally, he wholly believes in Global Warming... not making a statement here about my opinions, but he does view a desire / need to quickly solve this challenge. He views alternative energy sources from coal and natural gas as critical. BUT, and here's where "common sense" comes in, he does not think we should be destroying our economy and making stupid decisions. He is not a fan of nuclear power, but views nuclear power as a means to get off fossil fuels more quickly. And he recognizes the issues with wind power, and the supply chain concerns with solar power (the need to make panels here, and not exporting all our money to China).

His views on almost everything take this kind of measured approach. Make no mistake, he IS a Democrat... so his views still align entirely with the Democrat party of say... ~2005. But, he views addressing all of these things from a measured approach.

The view from most of us, as well as those on the right, is that things have gotten totally radicalized under Biden (started under Obama). Democrats literally take any position that they think is anti-right, and will create positions simply for the benefit of having SOMETHING political to pit against the right. As many moderate Democrats have said, like Bill Maher, the left is the part of crazies right now. And I think JFK Jr. would really shift that approach.

To be honest, this is really much more how I align... I'm for tariffs, which is not what Republicans support. I'm anti-death penalty, which goes against Republicans. I support a measured approach to economic interaction from the government. Not necessarily the laissez-faire approach that Republicans and Libertarians typically support. I also greatly dislike Modern Monetary Theory that both parties have essentially adopted for no other reason than it's so bad that it doesn't matter anymore, and that it's a means for getting free stuff to your party's interests.



RFK Jr. also believes some batshit things, though, from "normal" conspiracies like vaccines causing autism to more wild ones, like COVID-19 being designed to target White and Black folks.

I'd love a moderate to be on the ticket. I think policy is more important than the person... but the person does matter and can sometimes override my "policy" importance (it's no secret that I find Trump deplorable, even though policy-wise he could've been worse). The conspiracies may overshadow the man, but I would have to see RFK Jr. on a larger platform to provide a more informed opinion.

Personally, I think Biden has shown himself to be more moderate than some on the left, but he's not as moderate as Clinton, certainly more moderate than Obama though (I'm a little confused by that idea - Obama pushed an expansion of socialized medicine, while Biden pushed an expansion of socialized infrastructure; infrastructure is more widely accepted as government responsibility than medicine). Can you expand on that a little more? What do you see in terms of policy that has been radicalized under Biden vs. Obama?
82-T/A [At Work] AUG 23, 04:23 PM

quote
Originally posted by theBDub:
RFK Jr. also believes some batshit things, though, from "normal" conspiracies like vaccines causing autism to more wild ones, like COVID-19 being designed to target White and Black folks.



I think this is an extreme view of his points. He does believe that "modern" vaccines have led to increased mental illness and increased autism. We do know for a fact that mental illness and autism have both been dramatically on the rise. He's not wrong to question these things. Everyone in my family has all their vaccinations, but with my daughter, I took a more measured approach. I fought back against the cheaper "cocktails," and I broke them up into individual shots, and spaced them out. The concern is the additional stuff that's in these vaccines (everything from aluminum oxide to other fillers), each of which vastly exceed the recommended allowance for such minerals, chemicals, or elements in the human body for even an adult. And we exceed that 3x in some cases in children. So that is a concern.

But JFK Jr's approach has not been that X causes Y... he's merely suggested that there's enough potential evidence that points to it, that it should be investigated... and furthermore, we shouldn't disregard traditional processes simply because it becomes politically expedient to do so. It should bother you that many of the civilian seniors at the CDC have left Federal service and gone to work for Pfizer, Moderna, and J&J. There was an executive order that Trump passed within his first year that prevented government seniors and GG-15s from going to work for another company, and being allowed to work on Government contracts. This was rescinded by Biden within the first week. It's a significant portion of where a lot of the corruption in government comes from.



quote
Originally posted by theBDub:
Personally, I think Biden has shown himself to be more moderate than some on the left, but he's not as moderate as Clinton, certainly more moderate than Obama though (I'm a little confused by that idea - Obama pushed an expansion of socialized medicine, while Biden pushed an expansion of socialized infrastructure; infrastructure is more widely accepted as government responsibility than medicine). Can you expand on that a little more? What do you see in terms of policy that has been radicalized under Biden vs. Obama?



I'm speaking specifically about being culturally divisive and radical in his approach to things... like using the IRS to target conservative super PACs, (etc.). But on your two examples... I think Obamacare had some positives, but it was largely a failure. Positives are that it corrected the issue with preexisting conditions. You cannot be denied healthcare for having a pre-existing condition. But again, this is my issue with government... why not just pass a stupid bill on this by itself? Supposedly everyone supports this. But on the rest of it, the program mandated a standardization for health insurance which resulted in 100s of health insurance companies having to fold or go out of business because they could not offer health insurance at the level they want. When you get health insurance, there is a minimum standard of care. There were a lot of insurance plans that offered things like emergency care and basic check-ups. For someone who's in their early 20s... this is really all that most people need. I didn't even have health insurance until I was 25. Doesn't mean that was smart, but it's what it is. The result of Obamacare was that the insurance became essentially useless to most of the people who had it, and without the individual mandate (which was eventually deemed unconstitutional), it kind of fell apart. It's the kind of insurance where an average person can never use it, but still has to pay out every month. The first $2,500 or more ends up having to be paid out by the individual before the insurance even kicks in... and yet they're still paying month to month. My insurance is like that... but I make a **** ton of money. But what about for lower income people who make too much for Medicaid, but not enough where an insane deductible makes sense for them? So... a lot of issues. It ended up being a subsidy for insurance companies. I think it could have been better, but they rushed it through.

On Biden's infrastructure bill... I think everyone felt it should have been a good bill, but they used the nuclear option (which no one calls it that anymore) to pass what effectively was in large part, a funding bill for a lot of totally unrelated programs. There's infrastructure stuff in there for sure, and I don't want to get into it... but there's so much red tape involved... it requires union contracts and all kinds of other nonsense. It was a garbage bill. If we're going full leftist... using the New Deal approach would have actually solved a lot of the problems. A great much of the infrastructure bill had to do with green energy stuff, which went towards solar panels and windmills... ok, not against those, but that was basically a blank check to China since almost all of that comes directly from China now (I almost think that was intentional). Again... New Deal would have been much better... build it here.


But with Biden, I mean, if you want me to define how I think he's radical... everything from slashing oil leases and totally knee-capping the oil industry on his first day in office. He's had to go back on all of that because it's in large part what became a huge part of the catalyst for the inflation we were dealing with. That's just the start, but it's been a lot of the rhetoric, and love or hate Trump, this administration seems to be obsessed with Trump. But again... I've said it before, I don't think Biden is actually really all there. I think he's so confused most of the time that his team pretty much makes most of the decisions for him. Unlike Obama, who was definitely an architect of his own making.


Their rhetoric though is what I was mostly talking about. I don't remember Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan, George Bush, Bush Senior, Carter, or Ford, or any of our other presidents actively trashing on a daily basis the opposing party, and intentionally using everything at their disposal to create partisan hate.

Trump, absolutely... he's guilty of this. But I really see that this started under Obama... at the very least, he allowed it to happen.

I don't dislike Obama, there were a lot of things he did that were good, even if I disagree with more than I agree with. But Biden... I outright despite the guy... or his administration I should say.

Was I more or less clear? This should all be read without me trying to be insulting or snarky.

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 08-23-2023).]