Difference between "Judaism" and "Zionism". (Page 1/15)
fredtoast OCT 08, 10:42 AM
With Israel at war it is time for a certain group of people to roll out the "antisemitic" attack against anyone who disagrees with Israeli politics. It is crucial to understand the difference between the Jewish religion and the Zionist political movement. "Zionism" is a movement within the Jewish community to establish and maintain a physical "nation" of Israel. It is about real estate. Judaism is a religion that believes that the "nation of Israel" are the Jewish people. The people were called the "nation" for thousands of years before the country of Israel existed.

So it is possible to have nothing against the Jewish religion or the Jews themselves, but still be opposed to the political actions of the country of Israel. Here is a current list of Jewish organizations that oppose Zionism

American Council for Judaism in the United States
Anarchists Against the Wall in Israel
Edah HaChareidis in Israel
Jerusalem Faction in Israel
Jewdas in the United Kingdom
International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network based in the United States
Jewish Voice for Peace in the United States[1]
Malachim in the United States
Mishkenos HoRoim in Israel
Satmar in the United States
Union des progressistes juifs de Belgique
Neturei Karta in Israel, Germany, the United Kingdom, and the United States
Sikrikim in Israel
Een Ander Joods Geluid in the Netherlands

So be wary of any news source that labels anyone who disagrees with Israeli politics as "antisemitic". They are trying to deceive you.

BTW Arabs are also semitic, so the term is actually kind of silly.
randye OCT 08, 08:30 PM
Be wary of any bigot poster here that labels anyone who disagrees with his anti-Israel politics as a "Zionist".

He is full of crap and trying to deceive you.

Attempting to separate Judaism from the state of Israel is Leftist nonsense and bigotry.

2023 Israeli census shows that 73.5% of the population is JEWISH

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 10-08-2023).]

otakudude OCT 08, 10:55 PM

quote
Originally posted by fredtoast:

"Zionism" is a movement within the Jewish community to establish and maintain a physical "nation" of Israel. It is about real estate. Judaism is a religion that believes that the "nation of Israel" are the Jewish people. The people were called the "nation" for thousands of years before the country of Israel existed.



Yeah, and we saw how well that worked out for the Jewish people when they didn't have any nation willing to protect them or even support their right to exist.

[This message has been edited by otakudude (edited 10-08-2023).]

ray b OCT 08, 11:29 PM

quote
Originally posted by randye:

Be wary of any bigot poster here that labels anyone who disagrees with his anti-Israel politics as a "Zionist".

He is full of crap and trying to deceive you.

Attempting to separate Judaism from the state of Israel is Leftist nonsense and bigotry.

2023 Israeli census shows that 73.5% of the population is JEWISH




you short count the arabs by a lot
no west bank or gaza arabs in the count
or refugee's in lots of other country's all round there

reactionary god bothered fools support zionists
in hopes of a world ending religious delusion
centered on a rebuilt temple as a precondition
to their really evil plans to end life on earth
revelations badly need revaluation as there is a trump involved
but not the rump/trump but the end of the world god bothered final final fantasy trump

sick sick moral god bothered fools who want everyone to die because of a fever dream by john
religion is not good for flowers and trees let alone little kids
why do we need christian plots to end the world ?
82-T/A [At Work] OCT 09, 08:08 AM

quote
Originally posted by fredtoast:

With Israel at war it is time for a certain group of people to roll out the "antisemitic" attack against anyone who disagrees with Israeli politics. It is crucial to understand the difference between the Jewish religion and the Zionist political movement. "Zionism" is a movement within the Jewish community to establish and maintain a physical "nation" of Israel. It is about real estate. Judaism is a religion that believes that the "nation of Israel" are the Jewish people. The people were called the "nation" for thousands of years before the country of Israel existed.

So it is possible to have nothing against the Jewish religion or the Jews themselves, but still be opposed to the political actions of the country of Israel. Here is a current list of Jewish organizations that oppose Zionism.




I came in here expecting to see exactly what I'm seeing here. Not shocked. You simply parrot literally whatever the left commands you to care about. Do you have any views at all that are not totally in-line with CURRENT radical leftist ideology? On the day Israel has it's worst attack in nearly 25 years, you blabber about all this nonsense.

How about this... the Jews have been on that land for over 3,000 years. In order of sheer number of years occupied, you have:

- The Jews
- The Christians
- The Pagans
- The Muslims

Islam has only been around for the past ~1,000 years. In total number of years occupied, they are only the most recent people to be here, and have been there the least. There's no "occupation" of Palestine. It's not even a real place but a mere idea that exists in Gaza, Jordan, and Israel. Again, the Jews have been here for 3,000+ years...
fredtoast OCT 09, 08:40 AM

quote
Originally posted by randye:

Attempting to separate Judaism from the state of Israel is Leftist nonsense and bigotry.






Here is a list of Jewish organizations that are bigoted against Jews.


American Council for Judaism in the United States
Anarchists Against the Wall in Israel
Edah HaChareidis in Israel
Jerusalem Faction in Israel
Jewdas in the United Kingdom
International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network based in the United States
Jewish Voice for Peace in the United States[1]
Malachim in the United States
Mishkenos HoRoim in Israel
Satmar in the United States
Union des progressistes juifs de Belgique
Neturei Karta in Israel, Germany, the United Kingdom, and the United States
Sikrikim in Israel
Een Ander Joods Geluid in the Netherlands


Are you Jewish Randye?
rinselberg OCT 09, 08:40 AM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

I came in here expecting to see exactly what I'm seeing here. Not shocked. You simply parrot literally whatever the left commands you to care about. Do you have any views at all that are not totally in-line with CURRENT radical leftist ideology? On the day Israel has it's worst attack in nearly 25 years, you blabber about all this nonsense.

How about this... the Jews have been on that land for over 3,000 years. In order of sheer number of years occupied, you have:

- The Jews
- The Christians
- The Pagans
- The Muslims

Islam has only been around for the past ~1,000 years. In total number of years occupied, they are only the most recent people to be here, and have been there the least. There's no "occupation" of Palestine. It's not even a real place but a mere idea that exists in Gaza, Jordan, and Israel. Again, the Jews have been here for 3,000+ years...


Sorry to be so blunt, "82-T/A," but you are confusing radical leftist ideology with a general agreement that exists among moderates, liberals and progressives, that there is no good future for Israel that doesn't include some kind of "game changer" to improve the lot of the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, and the Palestinians who are still concentrated elsewhere in refugee camps—or what started as refugee camps—in Lebanon, Jordan and perhaps some other areas in the Middle East.

Israel's Arab citizens, both Muslim and Christian, also need to be granted a better footing in terms of how Israel and Israeli society "rolls."

It's ridiculous to call this "radical leftist ideology," in the face of such a large number of Americans who think this way.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 10-09-2023).]

fredtoast OCT 09, 08:48 AM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
Again, the Jews have been here for 3,000+ years...


This is my point exactly.

The Jewish nation has existed for thousands of years without an official political country. The country of Israel has only existed for about 80 years.

So opposing the political actions of a country (Israel) is different from being opposed to a religion (Judaism).

fredtoast OCT 09, 09:10 AM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
I came in here expecting to see exactly what I'm seeing here. Not shocked. You simply parrot literally whatever the left commands you to care about. Do you have any views at all that are not totally in-line with CURRENT radical leftist ideology?




Well apparently the "current radical leftist ideology" used to be supported by Republicans. The United Nations has always been overwhelming opposed to the actions of Israel concerning their blatant disregard of previous treaties and UN resolutions. But the United States has usually protected Israel by using their veto power as a member of the Security Council. But recent Democrat Presidents Obama and Biden have been LESS willing to use the veto power then previous Republican Presidents.


President Reagan allowed 21 UN resolutions that directly or indirectly condemned Israeli behavior and actions to pass. These included condemning Israel for the bombing of Lebanon, Iraq, and Tunisia. George H.W. Bush allowed nine UN resolutions, including one that criticized Israel for deporting Palestinians that it perceived as anti-Israel to pass, while George W. Bush allowed six more, including one that called on Israel to stop demolishing the houses of Palestinian civilians. Obama allowed only one UN resolution against the expansion of the settlements to pass before leaving office in December 2016.

So I guess Reagan and both the Bushes were all "radical leftists".
ray b OCT 09, 09:23 AM
there are radical ultra-orthodox jews who are even trying to run out christians

'' 13 heads of Christian communities in Jerusalem issued a joint statement entitled, “The Current Threat to the Christian Presence in the Holy Land,” that said, “Christians have become the target of frequent and sustained attacks by fringe radical groups. Since 2012 there have been countless incidents of physical and verbal assaults against priests and other clergy, attacks on Christian churches, with holy sites regularly vandalized and desecrated, and ongoing intimidation of local Christians who simply seek to worship freely and go about their daily lives. These tactics are being used by such radical groups in a systematic attempt to drive the Christian community out of Jerusalem and other parts of the Holy Land.” The statement acknowledged “the declared commitment of the Israeli government to uphold a safe and secure home for Christians in the Holy Land” but said, “It is therefore a matter of grave concern when this national commitment is betrayed by the failure of local politicians, officials and law enforcement agencies to curb the activities of radical groups who regularly intimidate local Christians, assault priests and clergy, and desecrate Holy Sites and church properties.” The appeal continued, “The principle that the spiritual and cultural character of Jerusalem’s distinct and historic quarters should be protected is already recognized in Israeli law with respect to the Jewish Quarter. Yet radical groups continue to acquire strategic property in the Christian Quarter, with the aim of diminishing the Christian presence, often using underhanded dealings and intimidation tactics to evict residents from their homes, dramatically decreasing the Christian presence, and further disrupting the historic pilgrim routes between Bethlehem and Jerusalem.”

from a USA gov report https://www.state.gov/repor...-west-bank-and-gaza/