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| William Penn -- Cancelled (Page 1/22) |
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Notorio
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JAN 08, 01:40 PM
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Our National Park Service is proposing to create 'a more welcoming, accurate, and inclusive experience' for visitors by removing Penn's statue and replacing the timeline of his life. If you live in Philadelphia, please complain to your elected officials and send the NPS your 'input.' Whether they will consider it at all is an open question.
NPS seeks input on plan to remove statue of William Penn ...
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rinselberg
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JAN 08, 02:06 PM
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Do you have a personal connection to Philadelphia?
I wonder if there is a plan, or ideas being floated, of where these William Penn artifacts could be relocated.
I don't have any personal connection to Philadelphia. I've not ever been there.
I'm open-minded about this... not ready to say (to myself) that this plan for a Welcome Park 2.0—without these particular William Penn artifacts—is a bad idea.[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 01-08-2024).]
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Notorio
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JAN 08, 02:53 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by rinselberg:
Do you have a personal connection to Philadelphia? ...
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Actually, I do have several connections. I went to the University of Pennsylvania for six years as a grad student and was very attracted to the area's history. Also, I had several ancestors in the area: in the city itself, one great grandfather was a police officer (full-blooded Irish in fact, per the Hollywood stereotype!) and another was the Chief Rigger at a nearby Chester shipyard. In that capacity he bid on the contract to raise and install the William Penn statue that (still) sits atop City Hall. He didn't win that contract but I've found newspaper articles of his crew raising factory smokestacks, church bells, and other statues, all over Chester.
Now, this park in question is so dominated by open space it seems like one could easily add tasteful, contemporary exhibits to supplement the artifacts and story already there, rather than planning to remove them. Lamentably, even by today's standards, I think it would be difficult to find someone of William Penn's era more inclusive than he was. His Quaker ideals of promoting brotherhood were real.
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BingB
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JAN 08, 05:35 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Notorio:
the William Penn statue that (still) sits atop City Hall. |
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And there is another Penn statue at Penn Treaty Park off N. Delaware Avenue at the corner of E. Columbia Ave. and Beach Street. How many statues do they need of the same guy? If "cancelled" means having 2 statues then I wish someone would "cancel" me. Seems like a lot of "pearl clutching" over nothing.
Given the fact that the piece of property was originally given to the Indians by Penns family I am guessing the original William Penn would be fine with them having a park there instead of him.
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82-T/A [At Work]
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JAN 08, 08:23 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by BingB:
And there is another Penn statue at Penn Treaty Park off N. Delaware Avenue at the corner of E. Columbia Ave. and Beach Street. How many statues do they need of the same guy? If "cancelled" means having 2 statues then I wish someone would "cancel" me. Seems like a lot of "pearl clutching" over nothing.
Given the fact that the piece of property was originally given to the Indians by Penns family I am guessing the original William Penn would be fine with them having a park there instead of him.
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The other parks are state parks. This change affects a National Park, which means the direction comes from the administration (either the president himself... which is unlikely, or a political appointee). Either way, it's my opinion that this is part of a larger effort to kind of whitewash history and present historical events less from the perspective of the founding of the United States (and in this case, Pennsylvania) and more from the perspective of the United States as an oppressive regime. When you can convince an entire population that their country is bad, they will have no qualms about it when the powers that be try to eliminate it.
If this was the first time this kind of thing happened, then we could just say whatever. But there have been countless statues of Thomas Jefferson, TDR, Einstein, Christopher Columbus, and dozens of others... the least of which are Democrat Confederacy statues... that are all being torn down within the last few years. Make no mistake about it... it's not much to do about nothing, it's absolutely just one instance in a larger plan. I'm very sure the people doing this think they're doing God's work and are making a more "inclusive" park by focusing on the Native American aspect.
If it were me, add a statue of William Penn giving a gladiator shake to the Native American chief and call it a day. And replant the four trees the cut down.
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BingB
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JAN 08, 09:45 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
When you can convince an entire population that their country is bad, they will have no qualms about it when the powers that be try to eliminate it. |
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Doesn't acknowledging the bad stuff we did and apologizing make us look "good" instead of "bad"?
And what do you mean by "eliminate"? What people in our country would benefit from "eliminating" our country?[This message has been edited by BingB (edited 01-08-2024).]
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82-T/A [At Work]
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JAN 09, 08:49 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by BingB:
Doesn't acknowledging the bad stuff we did and apologizing make us look "good" instead of "bad"?
And what do you mean by "eliminate"? What people in our country would benefit from "eliminating" our country? |
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There is not a single country in this world, least of which is a Native American tribe, that does not have tons of bad stuff that got them to where they are. It's part of human nature. There is no benefit on focusing on our bad. It can be taught in school, but we also need to understand that a lot of good (that we have today) came from that bad. If there was no European to New World slavery. You wouldn't have heroes such as Frederick Douglass, Rosa Parks, or Dr. MLK Jr.
When I say eliminate, I mean eliminate the current form of Government that we have. Our form of government, which... while it has changed over the years, was predominantly a Republic with significantly more focus on local state governance than the type of Federal-centric society we have now. We've eroded away our concept of Republic over the years through the election of Senators, which further democratizes it. I have no interest in defending or arguing those points, but what I will say is that this type of Government... where the states still have a preponderance of power over the Federal government (in lieu of Federal statute through the Supremacy Clause)... it does not function well for the modern Democrat party (or globalists... if you will) which desire a more centralized government. The U.S. Constitution, as it stands, is the single biggest bottleneck for the vast majority of policies that Democrats would like to enact.
It's not really a secret anymore that global powers influence our country, both financially and in other means. We've gone directly from the denial process to immediate acceptance of this fact in a relatively short period of time. The United States... specifically the U.S. Constitution, also stands as the biggest bottle-neck to a more formal globalist agenda. Outside of the countries like Iran, Russia, China, etc. The rest of the Western / Coalition countries if you will... could more easily be controlled through global influence if the U.S. Constitution didn't have the rigid and clear-cut 1st, 2nd, and 4th Amendment that it does.
The way you eliminate such an idea, is to prevent people from idolizing these amendments, which most Conservatives do... as well as many libertarians... and to a degree... most kids who are properly taught in school the reason for their existence. I'm not going to argue what the global agenda is... it could be totally positive, or it could be totally self-serving for the individuals that make up what we consider the globalist leaders. Either way... the United States constantly stands in the way simply because it's the most economically powerful country in the world, and the Constitution to a large degree prevents any erosion of sovereignty of these rights.
EDIT: When you can convince the public that the very foundation of their country is bad, they lose their pride for the institution that supports it. This makes it a lot easier to "eliminate" it, because exponentially fewer people will want to defend it. I have no doubt in my mind that the majority of the people who support these "reimagined" parks and tearing down of statues believe that they're doing good work. They solidly believe they are righting a wrong, and I don't question that intent. What I do however also acknowledge, is that the catalyst for these actions are not so well intentioned. They have a much more nefarious purpose.[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 01-09-2024).]
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rinselberg
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JAN 09, 12:15 PM
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"National Park Service withdraws plan to remove statue of William Penn from site of his Philadelphia home"
| quote | | Following public outcry—and intervention from the governor—the NPS has withdrawn a renovation plan for Welcome Park at the site of William Penn's former home in the city's Old City neighborhood |
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https://www.nbcphiladelphia...elphia-home/3739497/[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 01-09-2024).]
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82-T/A [At Work]
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JAN 09, 01:31 PM
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Looks like they're going to have to hold off plans on replacing this statue... the Democrats tend to do too much too soon, which alienates mainstream Americans too quickly. They don't want too much negativity during an election year... they already have enough that they need to explain away.
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Notorio
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JAN 09, 04:10 PM
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This was fast action. The NPS closed the online comment period after < 24 hours, noting that 'the majority of comments were against' the proposal. I'd be curious to know if that was a 51% majority or if it was higher? Anyway, this admission by the NPS I found to be quite telling:
"The preliminary draft proposal, which was released prematurely and had not been subject to a complete internal agency review, is being retracted. No changes to the William Penn statue are planned," the NPS said in a statement."
In other words, the old 'we didn't mean to publish that' dodge is trotted out again to explain a government action surprisingly found to be abhorrent to the General Public. Right. To borrow from Get Smart: 'I find that hard to believe ...' 
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