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| The State of Education (Page 1/1) |
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olejoedad
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SEP 19, 09:16 AM
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82-T/A [At Work]
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SEP 19, 09:39 AM
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So, I think we can all collectively agree that a ScanTron can be tabulated in minutes. There is no excuse whatsoever for their statement that they cannot release this information. All states perform some kind of testing, and they all get the results out the very same day (from the schools) that the tests are taken. So, we all agree and understand this is nonsense. That's not gaslighting as the kids say, that's just common sense.
On the results themselves, Democrats will give a host of excuses as to why these kids are failing. They'll blame school vouchers, teacher's pay (even though teachers in NY are paid some of the highest in the country), and other excuses they continue to make. But what we really need to focus on is how this is literally the direct result of a confluence of Democrat / Socialist ideologies as they are implemented.
- Illegal immigration... the schools are including illegals (what they refer to as asylum seekers yet to be adjudicated). These kids are bringing down the scores.
- Teachers Unions... result in the shitty teachers with tenure staying, and the good / motivated teachers leaving.
- Woke Agenda... the focus on teaching political propaganda in schools always takes priority over core competencies.
- Poverty... liberal ideology and policies ALWAYS lead to increased poverty, which leads to broken homes, parents who don't care = kids who don't care.
- High Taxes... raising taxes always eventually results in the people who have the means (and pay the most taxes), to leave... resulting in less money.
For the life of me, I cannot think of a single civil program the Democrats have done well since Bill Clinton. Literally everything they touch leads to complete and total failure. The only reason Democrats win elections at all, is because they use the "entire machine" to instill fear that the Republicans will be worse, all while promising to fix the problems they created (which they blame on everyone else).
If I hated America, and I was working for a foreign government... I'd want the Democrat party to be as successful as absolute humanly possible, because they're better at destroying the United States at its core than any adversary could ever possibly hope to accomplish.
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NewDustin
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SEP 19, 10:20 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
So, I think we can all collectively agree that a ScanTron can be tabulated in minutes. There is no excuse whatsoever for their statement that they cannot release this information. All states perform some kind of testing, and they all get the results out the very same day (from the schools) that the tests are taken. So, we all agree and understand this is nonsense. That's not gaslighting as the kids say, that's just common sense.
On the results themselves, Democrats will give a host of excuses as to why these kids are failing. They'll blame school vouchers, teacher's pay (even though teachers in NY are paid some of the highest in the country), and other excuses they continue to make. But what we really need to focus on is how this is literally the direct result of a confluence of Democrat / Socialist ideologies as they are implemented.
- Illegal immigration... the schools are including illegals (what they refer to as asylum seekers yet to be adjudicated). These kids are bringing down the scores.
- Teachers Unions... result in the shitty teachers with tenure staying, and the good / motivated teachers leaving.
- Woke Agenda... the focus on teaching political propaganda in schools always takes priority over core competencies.
- Poverty... liberal ideology and policies ALWAYS lead to increased poverty, which leads to broken homes, parents who don't care = kids who don't care.
- High Taxes... raising taxes always eventually results in the people who have the means (and pay the most taxes), to leave... resulting in less money.
For the life of me, I cannot think of a single civil program the Democrats have done well since Bill Clinton. Literally everything they touch leads to complete and total failure. The only reason Democrats win elections at all, is because they use the "entire machine" to instill fear that the Republicans will be worse, all while promising to fix the problems they created (which they blame on everyone else).
If I hated America, and I was working for a foreign government... I'd want the Democrat party to be as successful as absolute humanly possible, because they're better at destroying the United States at its core than any adversary could ever possibly hope to accomplish. |
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If liberal policies, unions, and woke agendas are destroying education, then why are Finland, The Netherlands, and Switzerland among the top-performing countries in the world in terms of education? I agree with you that money isn't the solution (we already spend more per-student than any of those countries), but would you be willing to consider what those countries are doing to drive their results?
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82-T/A [At Work]
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SEP 20, 08:48 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by NewDustin:
If liberal policies, unions, and woke agendas are destroying education, then why are Finland, The Netherlands, and Switzerland among the top-performing countries in the world in terms of education? I agree with you that money isn't the solution (we already spend more per-student than any of those countries), but would you be willing to consider what those countries are doing to drive their results? |
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I don't think you're wrong in making the comparison... but I think there's a difference in the way the unions are utilized in the Netherlands (for example) versus how they are in the United States. Do use something you quoted... the burden of proof now lies on you to explain why one succeeds (does it?) where the other does not.
The biggest issue with the teachers unions in the United States, is that they are political organizations. They are directly involved in politics, elections, and funding them... with a nod and a shake when their person wins, and they benefit directly from it. Does that also occur in the Netherlands, Finland, Switzerland, etc?
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olejoedad
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SEP 20, 09:27 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by NewDustin:
If liberal policies, unions, and woke agendas are destroying education, then why are Finland, The Netherlands, and Switzerland among the top-performing countries in the world in terms of education? I agree with you that money isn't the solution (we already spend more per-student than any of those countries), but would you be willing to consider what those countries are doing to drive their results? |
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Using the yardstick of dollars per student is deceptive, as most money for education goes to administration, insurance and retirement benefits, not the students.
A large part of the success of any educational system is determined by the support the child receives at home
Edit to add ....
Do the other countries allow school children to have cell phones in the classroom?[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 09-20-2024).]
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NewDustin
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SEP 20, 10:45 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
I don't think you're wrong in making the comparison... but I think there's a difference in the way the unions are utilized in the Netherlands (for example) versus how they are in the United States. Do use something you quoted... the burden of proof now lies on you to explain why one succeeds (does it?) where the other does not.
The biggest issue with the teachers unions in the United States, is that they are political organizations. They are directly involved in politics, elections, and funding them... with a nod and a shake when their person wins, and they benefit directly from it. Does that also occur in the Netherlands, Finland, Switzerland, etc? |
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I agree with the take on unions, and would include the administration of most K-12 orgs in the US. I spent a few years working at a CA school district, and the interactions between the two are absolutely what sent me back to the public sector. It's incredible how much it takes away from actual education. I have no idea how unions work in those countries, and haven't looked much into union reform laws -I've generally viewed them (incorrectly) as simply good/bad. I'm gonna find some time today to see what's out there for this.
Full transparency, I cherry picked those three countries because they are generally more progressive than the US. The conservative members of "countries with top education" seem to be conservative about it in ways we are not (strictly homogenized curriculum, Confucian-based views on authority and discipline, emphasis on rote learning), and I think you have a better "conservative" solution than flat out making education authoritarian. Still, it would be intellectually dishonest of me not to bring them up.
| quote | Originally posted by olejoedad:
Using the yardstick of dollars per student is deceptive, as most money for education goes to administration, insurance and retirement benefits, not the students.
A large part of the success of any educational system is determined by the support the child receives at home
Edit to add ....
Do the other countries allow school children to have cell phones in the classroom?
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I agree; while I think you can track the benefits increased spending has on education performance, it has to make it's way to programs that improve experiences/outcomes for students. US schools are good at absorbing money in a way that ensures the kids will never see it. I don't think it's by design but that doesn't really matter to the end result.
I checked cell policies for schools in those countries. All three are characterized by decentralization, and policies vary widely based on that. In general though, it looks like a similar mix to the US: Some schools ban them outright, some allow them but with restrictions, some make their use part of their curriculum. They struggle with mitigating them too.[This message has been edited by NewDustin (edited 09-20-2024).]
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ray b
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SEP 26, 12:20 PM
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funny how the con's never want to talk about police unions
the most corrupt anti-rights for citizens
the pig thinks they can shoot you if you move
steal your hard earned property on a guess on a maybe
be immune from criminal laws
never be fired for wrong doing
but lets attack the teachers as the christians want their money/schools/kids
and very few want to be cops
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olejoedad
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SEP 26, 02:22 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by ray b:
funny how the con's never want to talk about police unions
the most corrupt anti-rights for citizens
the pig thinks they can shoot you if you move
steal your hard earned property on a guess on a maybe
be immune from criminal laws
never be fired for wrong doing
but lets attack the teachers as the christians want their money/schools/kids
and very few want to be cops |
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Not a fan of Unions.
Worked on both the labor side and the management side, all they are good for is sucking up the labor dues and going out on strike because the retirees need more money.
Screw 'em.
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