Thoughts on the blame game... (Page 1/5)
82-T/A [At Work] NOV 08, 12:42 PM
So I’ve been thinking about it. I’m seeing a lot of comments from different Democrats all talking about WHY Harris lost the race. An overwhelming number of them are shitting on Joe Biden. So I have some wild thoughts here… conflicting ones:

1. For one, I will never forgive or forget what Biden did in Afghanistan. I truly hate him deeply for allowing it to happen the way he did, every aspect of it was a complete disaster, and it was entirely his fault the way he pulled out. Though I largely blame his cabinet because I think he’s mentally compromised to a degree.

2. On the other hand, I’m really frustrated the way everyone is shitting on Biden. I was truly bothered by the way Harris was merely “picked” outside of a primary. Obviously I understand how the primaries work and that they aren’t defined by the Constitution … and long story short, I don’t handle major change too well. Not like moving or changing jobs… but foundational principles that I grew up with. E.g., 9/11 affected me greatly. The idea that national constructs would change affect me.


You guys won’t like what I say here, but I tend to think the greatest issue in politics today (for Democrats), is the stranglehold that the Obama “regime” has on the Democrat party. Dead-serious… the Democrats never had so many issues as they’ve had under Obama. Hillary being ordained, the super delegates, Harris being ordained, etc. This “picking and choosing” of people, rather than it happening organically, it upsets me. I know you all will disagree… but I hope you see it to some degree.


I saw a quote from a Biden aide on the news:

“There is no singular reason why we lost, but a big reason is because the Obama advisors publicly encouraged Democratic infighting to push Joe Biden out, didn’t even want Kamala Harris as the nominee.”


I agree with this. Biden wasn’t great… and yeah, there was cheating during COVID… but WHY is Obama still pulling the strings? Has anyone asked that? When you have a new sitting president of the same party… the previous party moves on. Biden, as the president, should have been the effective leader of the party. There shouldn’t be anyone else behind the scenes pulling the strings. This is an incredibly important distinction… Obama never went away, he literally moved down the street from Dupont Circle and has been pulling the strings in DC.

What I hope, for the sake of America and the Democrat party, is that Obama moves on, sells his DC townhouse (that Susan Rice lives in, oddly enough) and enjoys his retirement at his new Hawaii mansion on the property of the former Robin Masters Magnum PI mansion that he completely leveled and destroyed so he could build that gawdy-ass mansion that’s there now.
cliffw NOV 08, 01:13 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

So I’ve been thinking about it. I’m seeing a lot of comments from different Democrats all talking about WHY Harris lost the race. An overwhelming number of them are shitting on Joe Biden.



Harris lost because of Biden's policies and decisions he made in office.

What are the reasons the democrats are zhitting on Biden.

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 11-08-2024).]

Doug85GT NOV 08, 01:21 PM
That is all political gamesmanship. I am sure they lost some votes because of it. While it does not look good, I don't think that is the major cause for their loss.

The Democrats have lost the middle class. They chose the extreme left over the blue collar workers. They chose the screaming banshee feminists, navel gazing intellectuals, sexual freaks, Hamas terrorist sympathizer, illegal aliens and limousine liberals. The union members went for Trump. To their embarrassment, union leaders rather than endorse Trump whom their members chose, instead gave no endorsement. Hispanics voted for Trump. Jews voted for Trump. Independents voted for Trump. While Trump did not win NY or New Jersey, he gained double digits in those blue states.

Democrats showed their true colors. Everyone that was not a radical leftist saw right through the political prosecutions of Trump. It did not take much to see Biden/Harris throwing the gates open on the border and rolling out the red carpet for illegal aliens. Illegal aliens were put up in hotels in cities around the country while homeless Americans were sleeping on the streets. Illegal aliens were getting thousands of dollars of assistance while disaster victims were given a $750 loan if they qualified. Everyone saw that the media and Democrats lied for years about Joe Biden's mental health. Then everyone saw the Democrats pick Harris through backroom deals completely disregarding the millions of votes cast during the primary.

They impeached Trump twice, they are trying to bankrupt him, they are trying to throw him in jail and then they tried to assassinate him, twice. There has never been a bigger underdog in American history. Americans don't like bullies. That is exactly who the Democrats are, bullies. The American people voted in droves to punish the bullies and to balance the scales.

We are seeing a political realignment. More voters registered as Republicans. Gallop showed more people identified as Republicans for the first time in decades. I expect to see Republicans winning the popular vote regularly going forward. On a side note, watch as the Democrats quietly abandon the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact when they realize it would benefit Republicans.

I cheer the Democrats eating each other and calling the majority of America that voted for Trump racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. Keep doing the same thing and expecting different results. I'll enjoy seeing President J.D. Vance in 2028.
82-T/A [At Work] NOV 08, 02:15 PM

quote
Originally posted by Doug85GT:

That is all political gamesmanship. I am sure they lost some votes because of it. While it does not look good, I don't think that is the major cause for their loss.

The Democrats have lost the middle class. They chose the extreme left over the blue collar workers. They chose the screaming banshee feminists, navel gazing intellectuals, sexual freaks, Hamas terrorist sympathizer, illegal aliens and limousine liberals. The union members went for Trump. To their embarrassment, union leaders rather than endorse Trump whom their members chose, instead gave no endorsement. Hispanics voted for Trump. Jews voted for Trump. Independents voted for Trump. While Trump did not win NY or New Jersey, he gained double digits in those blue states.

Democrats showed their true colors. Everyone that was not a radical leftist saw right through the political prosecutions of Trump. It did not take much to see Biden/Harris throwing the gates open on the border and rolling out the red carpet for illegal aliens. Illegal aliens were put up in hotels in cities around the country while homeless Americans were sleeping on the streets. Illegal aliens were getting thousands of dollars of assistance while disaster victims were given a $750 loan if they qualified. Everyone saw that the media and Democrats lied for years about Joe Biden's mental health. Then everyone saw the Democrats pick Harris through backroom deals completely disregarding the millions of votes cast during the primary.

They impeached Trump twice, they are trying to bankrupt him, they are trying to throw him in jail and then they tried to assassinate him, twice. There has never been a bigger underdog in American history. Americans don't like bullies. That is exactly who the Democrats are, bullies. The American people voted in droves to punish the bullies and to balance the scales.

We are seeing a political realignment. More voters registered as Republicans. Gallop showed more people identified as Republicans for the first time in decades. I expect to see Republicans winning the popular vote regularly going forward. On a side note, watch as the Democrats quietly abandon the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact when they realize it would benefit Republicans.

I cheer the Democrats eating each other and calling the majority of America that voted for Trump racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. Keep doing the same thing and expecting different results. I'll enjoy seeing President J.D. Vance in 2028.




Vance/DeSantist 2028!
NewDustin NOV 08, 04:51 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
1. For one, I will never forgive or forget what Biden did in Afghanistan. I truly hate him deeply for allowing it to happen the way he did, every aspect of it was a complete disaster, and it was entirely his fault the way he pulled out. Though I largely blame his cabinet because I think he’s mentally compromised to a degree.


I'll never understand this take. You blame Biden for stupidly continuing Trump's disastrous policy (which I agree he should be blamed for), but not Trump for being the genesis of that policy?


quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
2. On the other hand, I’m really frustrated the way everyone is shitting on Biden. I was truly bothered by the way Harris was merely “picked” outside of a primary. Obviously I understand how the primaries work and that they aren’t defined by the Constitution … and long story short, I don’t handle major change too well. Not like moving or changing jobs… but foundational principles that I grew up with. E.g., 9/11 affected me greatly. The idea that national constructs would change affect me.


You hit this nail on the head. Garbage in garbage out, you reap what you sow, you made your own incumbent-shaped bed now sleep in it.
Should have run the space thumb.


quote

You guys won’t like what I say here, but I tend to think the greatest issue in politics today (for Democrats), is the stranglehold that the Obama “regime” has on the Democrat party. Dead-serious… the Democrats never had so many issues as they’ve had under Obama. Hillary being ordained, the super delegates, Harris being ordained, etc. This “picking and choosing” of people, rather than it happening organically, it upsets me. I know you all will disagree… but I hope you see it to some degree.


I saw a quote from a Biden aide on the news:

“There is no singular reason why we lost, but a big reason is because the Obama advisors publicly encouraged Democratic infighting to push Joe Biden out, didn’t even want Kamala Harris as the nominee.”


I agree with this. Biden wasn’t great… and yeah, there was cheating during COVID… but WHY is Obama still pulling the strings? Has anyone asked that? When you have a new sitting president of the same party… the previous party moves on. Biden, as the president, should have been the effective leader of the party. There shouldn’t be anyone else behind the scenes pulling the strings. This is an incredibly important distinction… Obama never went away, he literally moved down the street from Dupont Circle and has been pulling the strings in DC.

What I hope, for the sake of America and the Democrat party, is that Obama moves on, sells his DC townhouse (that Susan Rice lives in, oddly enough) and enjoys his retirement at his new Hawaii mansion on the property of the former Robin Masters Magnum PI mansion that he completely leveled and destroyed so he could build that gawdy-ass mansion that’s there now.


I...agree with almost all of this. I think Bernie Sanders is a whackadoodle who believe in magic money, but he hit this nail right on the head. The Democrats lost all of the working voters, they've all but openly scapegoated men...it's like they're leaning into being the party of elites. The outpouring of Hollywood know-nothings telling people how to vote this election was disgusting. The Republicans are leaving a HUGE vulnerability by becoming the party for high spending/taxes and economic intervention. There is no mass representation for fiscal conservatives now: You have Democrats, who have also shifted to the left fiscally, campaigning on not raising taxes as much as the Republicans. I'd like to see them evolve in response to the new-normal, big-government Republican party: Run on responsible spending, strong national defense, free trade, and economic/personal freedom. It would require a marginal shift to the right on a handful of economic policies, but they could hoover up a huge number of disaffected, small-government conservatives.
82-T/A [At Work] NOV 08, 05:12 PM

quote
Originally posted by NewDustin:
I'll never understand this take. You blame Biden for stupidly continuing Trump's disastrous policy (which I agree he should be blamed for), but not Trump for being the genesis of that policy?




Nope... you don't get to twist this. Trump had nothing to do with this pull-out... Biden was president for 8 months.


Biden literally upended every single policy that Trump had enacted by the end of day 1... yet I'm supposed to somehow believe that Afghanistan is Trump's fault and that Biden followed it exactly and totally?

Ignoring the fact that I helped write a portion of the policy (and it didn't include leaving civilians, abandoning BAF and our embassy, leaving classified equipment behind, etc.)... but let's say for funsies that you were correct. Who then is more retarded... Trump for writing a bad policy... or Biden for following it exactly 8 months later?
NewDustin NOV 11, 11:55 AM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

Nope... you don't get to twist this. Trump had nothing to do with this pull-out... Biden was president for 8 months.

Biden literally upended every single policy that Trump had enacted by the end of day 1... yet I'm supposed to somehow believe that Afghanistan is Trump's fault and that Biden followed it exactly and totally?


Trump had nothing to do with the withdrawal? ...that's not twisting the truth, that's losing all familiarity with it.

Let's put the timeline in context: Trump architected the withdrawal, against the advice of his advisors, starting in 2017. The withdrawal began February 2020, and continued for 1 year under Trump before Biden took office. Biden took over in January 2021, and oversaw the withdrawal for 7 months, continuing Trump's timeline. After Trump created the policy and administered the vast majority of it, you seem to believe there was some large, Biden-driven divergence from what Trump had been doing...could you specify what exactly that was, when it happened, and why it is solely responsible for the withdrawal's failure?

Circling back to "Biden literally upended every single policy that Trump had enacted by the end of day 1..."
What about the USMCA? That embassy in Jerusalem? The 'Phase One' China trade tariffs? Title 42 migrant expulsions?
Again, this goes beyond twisting the truth, it is demonstrably false.


quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
Ignoring the fact that I helped write a portion of the policy (and it didn't include leaving civilians, abandoning BAF and our embassy, leaving classified equipment behind, etc.)... but let's say for funsies that you were correct. Who then is more retarded... Trump for writing a bad policy... or Biden for following it exactly 8 months later?


What you wrote or contributed to has absolutely no bearing on how this policy worked out and what the implications of it's enactment were, so I agree that ignoring it would be appropriate. Self-citation aside, it wasn't a surprise when those things happened; that the withdrawal would fall apart was widely predicted by Trump's own advisors, as well as the international defense community at large. Both of those were written prior to Biden taking over, and there's much, much more.

In any case, I think they are both wrong -Trump for allowing hubris and ignorance to lead him into an embarrassingly poorly-negotiated deal (where he got out-politicked by a third world guerrilla force), and Biden for understanding how historically poorly Trump had done and rolling along with it anyway in the hopes he could blame Trump entirely for the failure.
maryjane NOV 11, 03:04 PM
TDS is strong yet.

"It's Trump's Fault"

Odd isn't it, how the left can (and did) taut Biden's 1st 100 days of policy actions, most of which was reversing his predecessor's actions and agreements, but regarding 8 months (240 days) in, the left gives the sitting Commander-in-Chief a bye and blames his predecessor........

Even a leftist website like NBC got it right...at the time.
"..President Joe Biden's Withdrawal" The move is a stark statement of intent on the part of President Joe Biden's administration, and an indication that the remaining 2,500 to 3,500 U.S. troops have left or are close to leaving the country, months ahead of the president's Sept. 11 deadline."

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 11-11-2024).]

82-T/A [At Work] NOV 11, 04:55 PM

quote
Originally posted by NewDustin:
What you wrote or contributed to has absolutely no bearing on how this policy worked out and what the implications of it's enactment were, so I agree that ignoring it would be appropriate. Self-citation aside, it wasn't a surprise when those things happened; that the withdrawal would fall apart was widely predicted by Trump's own advisors, as well as the international defense community at large. Both of those were written prior to Biden taking over, and there's much, much more.

In any case, I think they are both wrong -Trump for allowing hubris and ignorance to lead him into an embarrassingly poorly-negotiated deal (where he got out-politicked by a third world guerrilla force), and Biden for understanding how historically poorly Trump had done and rolling along with it anyway in the hopes he could blame Trump entirely for the failure.




Again, everything you just said here... is completely asinine. It's mental gymnastics meant to shift blame for a completely horrible situation because your mind is unable to accept the fact that a person you voted for, and a person you support, could be so stupid, quite frankly... because it puts in question your own judgement.

Let's be completely honest about this... and not attempt to repeat left-wing talking points that are not reality, but totally subjective (see statement above):

- President Biden undid quite literally, nearly every single Trump policy he could. Every single one he possibly had the power to do so... yet... for some reason, you expect me to believe that for SOME reason... Biden felt that the Afghanistan pull-out needed to go EXACTLY how Trump (supposedly) wanted it? Like... he hates Trump with every fiber of his being, but on this ONE thing, you seem to think he believed Trump had it totally correct?

- And your next sentence... which is always the one... "Biden couldn't violate the treaty they had signed." Nonsense... the Taliban violated it within minutes of Biden's inauguration. There was nothing left of the treaty. The escape clause of the Doha treaty had already been activated.

- Biden abandoned Bagram Air Field, which Trump had intended to keep as a strategic U.S. asset until the last minute, and would have kept if the Taliban began violating the treaty.

- Biden abandoned Bagram in the middle of the night, without telling anyone, including the new base commander... they just abandoned, left the gates open, and literally shut the power off as they took the last flight out: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57682290

- More than 2/3rds of the Taliban were stopped outside of Kandahar, waiting for the Mayor to resigned. Biden could have called for an MQ9 strike, literally killing all of them, decimating their forces immediately. Biden did no such thing.

- Biden evacuated the military before even thinking about evacuating the civilians that had helped us. During the time that we fled the country and pulled out, we got calls from all of our intelligence assets on our land lines at the agency... the overwhelming vast majority of them were left behind, and they were all killed.

- When **** really hit the fan, Biden sent a Marine unit from Qatar that had not had any training at all. These were just kids... almost all of them aged 20, and then a couple of NAVY people. McKenzie from CENTCOM, and everyone involved was caught off guard by the "liberal political machine" that forced them to get out ASAP. These kids were bunched up, which should have never happened... that's why they were killed so easily because they were all together in one location. It was a complete **** show.

- We left billions and billions of dollars of firepower there... the Afghans have one of the most powerful armies in the world now. If they weren't retarded, they could invade Russia right now from it's border. They were so unorganized, that they didn't even have enough pilots to fly the C130s out of there. We left 2-3 C130s on the tarmac at HKIA... they sent a kid into the planes to shoot up the control panels, and blow out some of the tires. We left behind tons of stuff, including the friend / foe warning system (which is classified).


I understand that you voted for Joe Biden, and that it's difficult for you to accept that a decision YOU made, helped lead to this disastrous pull out of epic proportions. Today... I'm going to give you a big **** YOU. It's not personal, but **** YOU. I lost friends there, as I'm sure you probably did if you went to Afghanistan. This was entirely Joe Biden's fault the way it ended up, and I will not sit here and let you try to blame it on anyone else. I almost hope that when Trump gets into office, he drops a MOAB on the old U.S. embassy (where the Taliban leadership are), and also blow up the Russian-built palace that we renovated.
82-T/A [At Work] NOV 11, 04:57 PM
Also... feel free to watch this: