AR electronic cruise control wiring question (Page 2/5)
VanGTP5000 FEB 10, 07:12 PM
I am installing a digital cruise control servo into my L32 3800 (2004 Grand Prix GTP) 4T65E HD Fiero.

I would like to confirm that the servo I am using (seen below) is in fact compatible. I believe it to be, but because it is labeled "FH" and not "AR" and apparently from either a 2002-2005 Buick Rendezvous CXL or a 2001-2005 Chevy Venture, Pontiac Montana/Aztec or Oldsmobile Silhouette, I wanted to confirm.



Does anybody know the difference between the FH and AR modules?

Thanks,
-Van

[This message has been edited by VanGTP5000 (edited 02-11-2018).]

VanGTP5000 FEB 15, 06:32 PM
Anyone?
VanGTP5000 FEB 18, 05:53 PM

quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:

Take a 12v test light and connect it to ground and put the probe on the white wire shown in your pic. That would be next to the orange wire. The white wire I am looking at in your pic has a slide on terminal crimped on it. It looks like someone made some mods to your brake switch, but the white wire should be the one you are looking for. You will know it's right if you get voltage on it when, and only when the brake pedal is depressed. I think you will find you have power all the time on the orange wire.

If you have power on the white wire when it is depressed, then it is the right one.



Tim,

The white wire functions just as you said. Orange = power full time, White only when brake is depressed. So I quick spliced the long White wire from your harness into the White wire on the brake switch as seen here:



The light in this picture is provided courtesy of the test light probe touching the connection while depressing the brake. I would think that means that the long white wire is getting the right signal and functioning properly.



However, I can not get any voltage on the Brown/White wire when I turn on the cruise control switch. Every other wire function tests positively. I know you mentioned in your email to me (and in the instruction page you sent me) to check the brake switch if this is the case. I have, and it appears to be functioning properly. I assume this must be a common problem. What should I be looking for in this case?

Any help will be much appreciated.

-Van

[This message has been edited by VanGTP5000 (edited 02-18-2018).]

phonedawgz FEB 20, 08:51 AM
Sorry for the slow reply. There are two switches on the brake pedal that affect the cruise. One is the white wire that gets +12v when the brake pedal is depressed. The other is the Brown/White wire that gets power all the time (key on) except when the brake pedal is depressed. Why the two wires with the opposite functions? The two switches give redundancy to the brake to cruise control connection. If both don't cycle on/off the cruise won't engage.

Does the connector right next to the one you are working on have a gray and a brown/white wire? If so does the gray wire have +12v on it all the time and the brown/white have +12 on it when the brake pedal is at rest (key on and cruise on). It should.

The gray wire gets its power from the cruise switch. That is also the gray wire that extends all the way to the cruise. It should have power anytime the cruise is on. If you are not getting power on the gray wire look at the cruise switch being bad.
VanGTP5000 FEB 20, 01:32 PM

quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:

Sorry for the slow reply. There are two switches on the brake pedal that affect the cruise. One is the white wire that gets +12v when the brake pedal is depressed. The other is the Brown/White wire that gets power all the time (key on) except when the brake pedal is depressed. Why the two wires with the opposite functions? The two switches give redundancy to the brake to cruise control connection. If both don't cycle on/off the cruise won't engage.

Does the connector right next to the one you are working on have a gray and a brown/white wire? If so does the gray wire have +12v on it all the time and the brown/white have +12 on it when the brake pedal is at rest (key on and cruise on). It should.

The gray wire gets its power from the cruise switch. That is also the gray wire that extends all the way to the cruise. It should have power anytime the cruise is on. If you are not getting power on the gray wire look at the cruise switch being bad.



Oh ok. I was testing for power in the wrong spot! I had been testing at the point where I spliced your Brown/White harness wire into the old Brown/White wire of the Stock Fiero cruise control plug and wasn't seeing any power there.

As can be seen in the pics above...the brake switch where the black connector is has two Gray wires and one Brown wire (I don't see a White stripe) leading into it. I just tested for power and the test light does show power when the Cruise switch is turned on (key on) and is interrupted when I depress the brake pedal.

If I re-pinned the Original wiring harness plug pin that came loose from the servo plug correctly, I think it should work. I can't wait to test drive and see.

Thanks for all the support Tim.
-Van
VanGTP5000 FEB 20, 04:35 PM
I came home early to do a test drive of the cruise control. It didn't work. I have checked all the wiring connections.

Recap:

New Cruise Control Stalk installed.

Brake switch connector: Orange wire has power full time (key off). White wire has power only when brake pedal is depressed (key off).



Brake switch black 2 prong connector: Two Gray Wires have power (key on, cruise on). Brown wire (I don't see any White stripe on it) no power any time.




There is power on each spliced connection at the Stock Fiero plug wires to the new harness wires with the only exception being the Brown/White wire. No power is detected. The same applies for the end of the harness plug that connects to the plug at the ECU. There is power on each pin of that connector except for the Brown/White pin and the White wire pin next to it.

There is only power at the harness plug that connects to the FH digital servo on the Pink wire (key on) full time, Gray wire (key on, cruise on), Gray/Black (key on, R/A on), Dark Blue (key on, set on).

I unplugged one of my LED tail lights and put a regular incandescent 1157 back in thinking that maybe I may have a problem with not having a relay installed, but it didn't solve the problem either.

I am stumped.

-Van

[This message has been edited by VanGTP5000 (edited 02-20-2018).]

phonedawgz FEB 20, 06:10 PM
So the no power on the brown wire appears to be the problem. Of course the switch has a function and since it has power on the gray wire (that turns off when the cruise on the stalk is turned off right), this is the switch contact in question. So why doesn't the switch close when the pedal is in the idle position? Perhaps the plunger isn't fully depressed by the pedal because of the adjustment of the switch. Try manually pushing the plunger into the switch body a little more and see if that gives you power.

Perhaps the switch is bad.

Perhaps the switch is just the wrong switch. But the contacts should close at some time, either with the plunger all the way in or with the plunger all the way out. That is what a switch does.

You did check for power on that brown wire with the key on, cruise on, and the connector plugged into the switch correct?


---------
White pin - You do have to get that going all the way to the cruise also before the cruise will work. Check it at the connector by the PCM. Perhaps I pinned it one off. Make sure you are getting power on the white there when the brake pedal is depressed. Make sure when the plugs are mated the white wire is passing through. The white wire then runs continuously all the way to the cruise connector.


Get the Brown/White wire working correctly and get the White wire working correctly and the cruise should work.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 02-20-2018).]

fieroguru FEB 20, 06:10 PM
The schematic I sent you shows all the states you should see at each pin at the cruise module connector as you cycle the components of the system. If all those check out, swap out the cruise module. I went through 3 AR modules before I found one that worked (nothing changed in the wiring, just some worked, others didn't).

VanGTP5000 FEB 20, 09:00 PM
Thank you Guru,

I will keep in mind that the Servo may need to be replaced. I saw on your wiring diagram that my servo part # 25348830 FH unit isn't mentioned. I am still not sure if this is even compatible with this application.

Part of the problem now is that when I went to pull the harness plug from the servo, I lost power on the Pink pin which was functioning earlier in the day. Upon further inspection I realized that the crimping job I did on the Delphi 150 Female terminal without a proper crimping tool didn't hold. So I am right back where I was in this thread:

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/140831.html

Looks like I have to buy one of those crimping tools you mentioned after all Guru. That's what I get for not using the proper tool for the job.


-Van
VanGTP5000 FEB 20, 09:46 PM

quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:

So the no power on the brown wire appears to be the problem. Of course the switch has a function and since it has power on the gray wire (that turns off when the cruise on the stalk is turned off right), this is the switch contact in question. So why doesn't the switch close when the pedal is in the idle position? Perhaps the plunger isn't fully depressed by the pedal because of the adjustment of the switch. Try manually pushing the plunger into the switch body a little more and see if that gives you power.

Perhaps the switch is bad.

Perhaps the switch is just the wrong switch. But the contacts should close at some time, either with the plunger all the way in or with the plunger all the way out. That is what a switch does.

You did check for power on that brown wire with the key on, cruise on, and the connector plugged into the switch correct?


---------
White pin - You do have to get that going all the way to the cruise also before the cruise will work. Check it at the connector by the PCM. Perhaps I pinned it one off. Make sure you are getting power on the white there when the brake pedal is depressed. Make sure when the plugs are mated the white wire is passing through. The white wire then runs continuously all the way to the cruise connector.


Get the Brown/White wire working correctly and get the White wire working correctly and the cruise should work.



Phonedawgz,

I gently moved the brake switch into a better seated position and now the 2 Gray wires function as they should along with the Brown wire functioning properly at the switch location.

I am still not getting any power on the Brown/White wire from the Stock Fiero plug. I should see power on this wire full time (key on) until brake pedal is depressed correct? I think I may test the other wires to see if maybe I am working off the wrong wire. I did use the Brown/White stripe wire (seen by my index finger in pic) but maybe one of the others will work.



I did, however solve the White wire problem. It turns out that my Blue quick splice was one size too big for that tiny White wire. I replaced it with a Red quick splice and it penetrated the White wire insulation properly this time.



So now all wires function at the pins of the harness plug to be connected to the servo with the exception of the Pink wire which I just need to re-pin again and the Brown/White wire.

I am getting closer
-Van