Ecotec Swap Questions (LE5 Engine Management) (Page 2/3)
zkhennings MAR 11, 04:56 PM
Turns out the local premium dealer is Tuner Tools, I was in the WPI Motorsports Club back in the day with one of the guys that runs it. So I have been talking to him directly. He has installed Haltechs into a few of his race cars. He also builds a lot of harnesses for competition cars, so he is a great resource to pick his brain.

I was looking at lower end Haltechs like the 1000, but after some research I have to go with the Elite 1500 if I want to control both the intake and exhaust VVT. The Haltech 1000 will only do VVT on the intake cams. The 1500 has a ton of other benefits I wanted to including logging that is 10 times higher resolution than the 1000. Also the 1500 does DBW while the 1000 does not.

The DBW with the Haltech will have next to no latency, if I went with the factory ECU that would be a different story due to emissions reasons. The relationship between pedal position and throttle position is fully customizable which is really cool, and the Haltech will do cruise control via the DBW which is also useful as I would sacrifice cruise control if it meant I needed any additional hardware. The pedal in the trunk is cool, especially if you want to be able to open the throttle while looking at the engine, but I will probably just mount the pedal in replacement of the Fiero pedal.

I intend to get the universal harness for the Haltech as it comes with all the correct types and gages of wires for each of the inputs/outputs, including shielded wires (If anyone thinks I could source wire cheaper elsewhere I would be interested, but I imagine multiple spools of different kinds of wire would get pricey). I will make my own fuse box and relay set up as that is simple, no need to pay the premium for Haltech's solution. It will also allow me to have screw terminal blocks that I find useful for keeping my build modular.

I will however need to source all the connectors for the LE5 sensors, solenoids, alternator etc.

www.bmotorsports.com and www.corsa-technic.com are the sites that he recommended for sourcing the connectors and pins, but I am unsure where to find the information of what connectors I will need to order without physically having the original harness, something I would not plan to buy if I go this route.

If anyone has information about that, let me know.

wtfb I looked into Mega Squirt and while it is pretty cool how DIY it is, I don't know if it truly simplifies things for me. I am pretty sure it can run everything including timing if it is a Mega Squirt 3.
pmbrunelle MAR 11, 10:16 PM

quote
Originally posted by zkhennings:
The DBW with the Haltech will have next to no latency, if I went with the factory ECU that would be a different story due to emissions reasons. The relationship between pedal position and throttle position is fully customizable which is really cool, and the Haltech will do cruise control via the DBW which is also useful as I would sacrifice cruise control if it meant I needed any additional hardware.



With the Haltech being fast, the throttle servo on the throttle body would be the next source of latency. I suppose the throttle servo would be fast enough, but I don't know.


quote
Originally posted by zkhennings:
I will make my own fuse box and relay set up as that is simple, no need to pay the premium for Haltech's solution. It will also allow me to have screw terminal blocks that I find useful for keeping my build modular.



You need a fuse box other than the stock one next to the hood release?


quote
Originally posted by zkhennings:
wtfb I looked into Mega Squirt and while it is pretty cool how DIY it is, I don't know if it truly simplifies things for me. I am pretty sure it can run everything including timing if it is a Mega Squirt 3.



Any MegaSquirt (even MS1 with the appropriate firmware) will manage ignition timing.

MegaSquirt is for folks who consider tinkering with the fuel injection system to be an integral part of the automotive hobby.

If you just want your engine to work in the easiest/simplest manner possible, MegaSquirt is the wrong choice.
zkhennings MAR 12, 12:45 PM
I am not sure if I need an additional fuse box or not, it might be nice to make a new one or I guess relocate the stock one so it is easier to access and utilizes new wiring. Back when I still had the stock iron duke installed I was having a weird intermittent stumble and the check engine light would illuminate for less than a second. Then at times the car would not run. Turned out to be one of the wires that fed power to the ECU, it was broken internally and while it showed 12 volts at the ECU connector, using a test light the light barely illuminated.

Using a new fuse box with a new dedicated power source for the most critical circuits seems like it would be worthwhile to avoid unnecessary issues. It is a 35 year old car after all. That was my thought process at least.

And huh I had thought that running the spark was something only the MS3 could do, but you are right, looks like they all can.
arbakken MAR 24, 11:51 AM
I'm planning on a L61/F23 swap in the very near future (it's my corona lockdown project). I'm planning on keeping and using as much factory wiring (including DBW pedal which I would also prefer to get rid of) and tuning as possible for reliability. I bought a 2008 Cobalt that hit a deer so I have the entire car for donor parts. The DBW throttle response is pretty good, much better than my 2015 wrangler which is terrible.

My general plan is to clean up the wiring harness, and have someone delete the vats and bcu. Swap Specialties sells an ecotec harness and will tune the ECU, currently I think it would be ~$676 to have that done. I'm trying to do it on the cheap if I can, so we'll see what happens.
wftb MAR 24, 03:12 PM
A mistake I made when I did my swap is I pared down the wiring harness to as small as I thought I would need. That got rid of a lot of stuf like getting the blinker indicators to work in the cavalier guage cluster, having cruise and other things I cant think of now. The entire car wiring harness is large but it can be all stuffed in there.

HP tuners can get rid of vats and you will have the whole system for about the same as you are paying to have the ECM tuned. Just make sure your donor car is on the supported vehicles list (some Cobalts are not supported) and check on the HP tuners forum to make sure vats can be deleted for your donor as well. In some vehicles HP tuners will not get rid of VATS.

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86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo
rear SLA suspension
QA1 coilovers on tube arms

gjgpff JUN 14, 04:15 PM
This is a little off-topic, but I've been considering a LE5 swap for my 88 Value Leader. It has the Isuzu MT2 5 speed, which I kind of like.

Will Ecotecs in general and the LE5 in particular bolt to the Isuzu MT2 5 speed manual transmission?


I'm nearly certain that the answer's no, but I've searched the forums a bit and have yet to find confirmation one way or another. Part of my motivation is that LE5s are pretty common at the various pick a parts around here, but F23s are much rarer.

Thanks!

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Geoff Gibbons
1988 4cyl Manual

Will JUN 15, 07:54 AM

quote
Originally posted by gjgpff:

This is a little off-topic, but I've been considering a LE5 swap for my 88 Value Leader. It has the Isuzu MT2 5 speed, which I kind of like.

Will Ecotecs in general and the LE5 in particular bolt to the Isuzu MT2 5 speed manual transmission?


I'm nearly certain that the answer's no, but I've searched the forums a bit and have yet to find confirmation one way or another. Part of my motivation is that LE5s are pretty common at the various pick a parts around here, but F23s are much rarer.

Thanks!




They won't bolt up. The Ecotecs use a different bolt pattern than the V6/60 & Iron Duck.
Also, the MT2 Isuzu uses a 3.35 ring & pinion ratio, which is what lets the 5 speed Duke cars get such great mileage. The only other FWD transmission geared that tall is the MY8 econo 4 speed Muncie. The best you can do in an F23 is 3.63, similar to the V6/60's Getrag.
I do not know if the Isuzu was ever used with an Ecotec... if so you might be able to do a bellhousing swap.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 06-15-2021).]

zkhennings JUN 15, 10:06 AM
I think the F23s are pretty common, at least from a quick search at car-parts.com which will search the local junkyards for you. Not sure about Ecotec specific f23s though but you can swap bellhousings easily enough. There is also the f35 I believe, which is from the Cobalt SS cars.

Also I decided against the Ecotec in the end and I am going with the LZ9 3900 V6 motor, I did not want to be forced to have forced induction to make good power, and the Ecotec's light weight is moot when you add all the components for a turbo setup. If I was going to do an Ecotec I think it would be the LSJ motor as it makes good power, is compact, and has less ancillary needs than a turbo setup. If you can find an LSJ/F35 with LSD combo being sold for a good price, that would be the way to go IMO.
gjgpff JUN 15, 03:29 PM

quote
Originally posted by Will:


They won't bolt up. The Ecotecs use a different bolt pattern than the V6/60 & Iron Duck.
Also, the MT2 Isuzu uses a 3.35 ring & pinion ratio, which is what lets the 5 speed Duke cars get such great mileage. The only other FWD transmission geared that tall is the MY8 econo 4 speed Muncie. The best you can do in an F23 is 3.63, similar to the V6/60's Getrag.
I do not know if the Isuzu was ever used with an Ecotec... if so you might be able to do a bellhousing swap.




Thanks, man, it's always good to get confirmation. I think I'm going to go with an F23, it just seems to make sense and it turns out they're not nearly as rare around my neck of the woods as I thought. As far as the mileage goes, I get like 31mpg in mixed driving and I've gotten up to 36mpg on long highway trips! This is with nothing but new plugs, wires, and chasing down obvious vacuum line issues. Of course I don't really get to enjoy it because the fuel gauge sticks at the half way point so, right now I'm using the trip meter at every fill up and getting another fill up after only 200miles!


quote
Originally posted by zkhennings:

I think the F23s are pretty common, at least from a quick search at car-parts.com which will search the local junkyards for you. Not sure about Ecotec specific f23s though but you can swap bellhousings easily enough. There is also the f35 I believe, which is from the Cobalt SS cars.

Also I decided against the Ecotec in the end and I am going with the LZ9 3900 V6 motor, I did not want to be forced to have forced induction to make good power, and the Ecotec's light weight is moot when you add all the components for a turbo setup. If I was going to do an Ecotec I think it would be the LSJ motor as it makes good power, is compact, and has less ancillary needs than a turbo setup. If you can find an LSJ/F35 with LSD combo being sold for a good price, that would be the way to go IMO.



Thanks! You learn something every day. I'm clearly a neophyte regarding finding used parts, it looks like there's more than a dozen F23s within 30miles of my place! And LE5s are even more plentiful! I don't plan on much modding; a good running LE5 should give about 170hp and that's substantially more than the L44 V6. The big challenges are going to be the electronics and ... CALIFORNIA EMISSIONS RULES!!!

[This message has been edited by gjgpff (edited 06-15-2021).]

Will JUN 15, 06:19 PM

quote
Originally posted by gjgpff:

Thanks, man, it's always good to get confirmation. I think I'm going to go with an F23, it just seems to make sense and it turns out they're not nearly as rare around my neck of the woods as I thought. As far as the mileage goes, I get like 31mpg in mixed driving and I've gotten up to 36mpg on long highway trips! This is with nothing but new plugs, wires, and chasing down obvious vacuum line issues. Of course I don't really get to enjoy it because the fuel gauge sticks at the half way point so, right now I'm using the trip meter at every fill up and getting another fill up after only 200miles!



With an '88 you have an 11 gallon tank, although I'm not sure I've ever put more than 10.5 into mine. At 30 mpg, that's over 300 miles to a tank. I run my V6 to 200-250.