Grand Am Rear Brake "Upgrade" (Page 2/3) skywurz MAR 01, 10:27 PM My speedometer maxes out at 85. 80 takes a bit of a rollout to get to. I treat it like im driving a fully loaded semi if it took me that long to get to 80 its sure as heck going to take some time getting back down Daryl M MAR 01, 10:51 PM quote Originally posted by fieroguru: Remember the Fiero was designed when 55 mph was the national speed limit. Now it isn't uncommon to be passed while doing 80. Add heavy than stock stereo, interior, body kit, wheels/tires, and the elevated travel speeds and it is easy to find yourself in some scary situations. You don't need a brake upgrade to cruise town, but exceptional brakes is one thing that once you have experienced, you are never happy with stock again. Grand Am upgrade in the back only is a very bad idea. Guru I find all of the proposed brake upgrades perplexing. It seems that everyone has an idea of something that will improve braking on Fieros. What are your thoughts on this issue? pmbrunelle MAR 01, 11:28 PM When faced with multiple contradictory opinions, the only recourse is to educate oneself on the topic. Then, it will be possible to form your own opinions and sort the good info from the junk. I could just say what I think on the topic, but you would have no reason to believe my version of things versus someone else's. Mike in Sydney MAR 02, 12:16 AM quote Originally posted by ArthurPeale: I needed to bleed the brakes, and promptly sheared off the bleed screw. Tried extractor (broke it), welding a nut to it (broke the weld) and I've finally thrown up my hands in frustration. So...I'd like to swap with Grand Am parts. In the reading that I've done, this SHOULD be a direct swap - calipers, rotors, pads - is that accurate? https://www.rockauto.com/en...93dc1b4d5e44604b13a2 Arthur, as you can see there are a lot of opinions on Brakes for Fieros so can I make a suggestion? If you aren't going racing stick, with the original system and repair or replace the broken caliper. Yep, it'll be more expensive but the parts are still available. The Fiero Store is only 90 minutes south of you on I-91. Call TFS, order 2 calipers, pads, & glide pins for the rear, left and right. Take your old ones off, put 'em in a box, and take it to them. You wind up with rebuilt calipers, new pads and hardware without all the problems of having to change the entire system to get proper brake bias. If you want a little better performance, choose a performance pad (I like Wagner Thermoquiet pads) and consider installing the S10 vacuum booster upgrade. (Check the archives.) Good luck. theogre MAR 02, 01:15 AM quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: I even know a few owners still driving with 30 year old brake fluid in the system. quote Originally posted by dremu: Given the hygroscopic nature of brake fluid, at that point I think it's a mixture of 50% brake fluid and 50% water Doesn't take many years to "Water Down" Brake Fluid. If tank/bottle left open or the cap leaks can pull water from air in hours to a few day to boil ~ same as water. I plan to flush my Fiero this spring because true Wet Boil is very low. Lower the DOT3 spec but system has DOT4 since ~ 2K and completely restore the system ~ 10 years ago. And now only drive 1000-2000 mile per year. How to you know? I have a tester that actually heats a sample. Most shops don't have them so unlikely to find them or any other fluid test if you're trying to call around. Cheap electronic testers that doesn't heat sold by many including auto part stores often don't work or last 1 or 3 test then fluid gets inside and "eat" the board. Don't trust them. "Paper" Test Strips have problems too. How To Test Your Brake Fluid Correctly by Bendix Brakes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWPkedgHnrA Made by Alba Tools Ltd under Uk patent 2298928b but US patent showing how the tester works. Now sold thru OTC and few others worldwide. (US Patents are Pubic Records, Not so in other counties.) https://patentimages.storag...148708/US5814721.pdf Many have newer versions but same operation. See my Cave, Brake Fluid theogre MAR 02, 02:14 AM quote Originally posted by Mike in Sydney: Arthur, as you can see there are a lot of opinions on Brakes for Fieros so can I make a suggestion? If you aren't going racing stick, with the original system and repair or replace the broken caliper. Yep, it'll be more expensive but the parts are still available. The Fiero Store is only 90 minutes south of you on I-91. Call TFS, order 2 calipers, pads, & glide pins for the rear, left and right. Take your old ones off, put 'em in a box, and take it to them. You wind up with rebuilt calipers, new pads and hardware without all the problems of having to change the entire system to get proper brake bias. If you want a little better performance, choose a performance pad (I like Wagner Thermoquiet pads) and consider installing the S10 vacuum booster upgrade. (Check the archives.) Good luck. If you replacing Stock brake w/ same... Better use AZ or others w/ Good Warranty and Back them up. Lifetime Warranty w/ AZ is very easy to get anywhere and just use a Phone# to return so when you lose a receipt isn't a problem. Many "rebuild" parts have problems right out of the box and may need to return. Do not return cores until the job is done for same reason. Many stores will take returns from online too. Example: Order Adanvce Auto Online then return cores etc to local store. You get many discounts doing that too and not like RA 5% but 10% - 20% very often and free shipping > x$. (If you use NoScript etc then use another profile or browser so pages will load completely to see many discounts etc.) ⚠️ Warning: Do Not buy "Brake Upgrades" From TFS. TFS is Not a "Friend" to anyone including the "Fiero world." Better pads like Wagner TQ is available for stock Fiero and works well. I and others use them on every vehicle not just Fiero. fieroguru MAR 02, 08:37 PM quote Originally posted by Daryl M: Guru I find all of the proposed brake upgrades perplexing. It seems that everyone has an idea of something that will improve braking on Fieros. What are your thoughts on this issue? The order you should proceed: Exceptional tires (200 or less tread wear, summer only tires), good brake pads (Wagner TQ left me woefully disappointed), increase braking force. If you don't have a very in depth understanding of the Fiero brake system, able to analyze the proposed changes, and calculate their impact on clamp force, braking mechanical leverage, and F/R bias, then you should not be mixing and matching any brake components. Likewise anyone trying to sell you an upgrade, should be able to explain exactly what the upgrade does and does not do with math... if they can't, then consider it the same as taking you engine to your local bakery for a rebuild. The Fiero brake system is very different than just about every other car in regards to how the front/rear brake bias is created. Most other cars on the road (especially any performance cars) use smaller caliper pistons in the rear (even smaller than the fiero rear calipers) to establish the front/rear bias. The Fiero uses the combo valve to reduce rear line pressure to calipers that are the same size front and rear (I posted the actual line pressures at various pedal forces in another thread). Based on these fundamental differences, the majority of people have a greater chance of ending up with an overall less effective brake system by swapping calipers unless you are very knowledgeable and methodical in your selections. Too much front bias will lead to early lockup or overheating of the front tires under continual hard braking. Too much rear bias will lead to locking up the rear tires, which becomes very unstable and the rear will fishtail side to side. For most people, keeping the bias front/rear close to stock should be the goal. This means you have to keep the caliper piston diameters close to the same front/rear. In my opinion most people will have better success keeping the Fiero brake system hydraulics stock and by going after the gains by using larger diameter rotors. Just like using a breaker bar allows you to either apply more torque to the bolt or use less force to loosen the bolt, moving the caliper further from the centerline of the wheel bearing does the same thing with the frictional force of the caliper pads (less pedal pressure to stop at the same rate, or able to stop at a faster rate as long as the tires are up to the task). Use a larger rotor but with stock thickness to keep weight minimized. This will keep the brake bias stock, retain factory parking brake function, keep weight gain minimized, and keep the overall cost of the upgrade minimized. Mike in Sydney MAR 02, 10:32 PM quote Originally posted by fieroguru: (Wagner TQ left me woefully disappointed) Just curious, why did Wagner TQ leave you woefully disappointed? I've had good experience with wear, dusting, and feel but I don't do any really spirited driving either. fieroguru MAR 03, 05:25 AM quote Originally posted by Mike in Sydney: Just curious, why did Wagner TQ leave you woefully disappointed? I've had good experience with wear, dusting, and feel but I don't do any really spirited driving either. Pad material is soft, so the pedal wasn't as firm, excessive brake dust (especially given the moderate stopping performance), initial bite and overall grip not on par with other brake pads I have ran. They are fine for a cruiser, but not for anything performance related. EBC yellow stuff is a much, much better pad, but significantly more expensive and it still dusts more than I like. ArthurPeale MAR 03, 03:16 PM Okay, team; I'm convinced. I *was* just trying to do this so I could use it as a grocery-getter around town, in a cost effective manner (looks like about $60 altogether), but I'd rather be able to stop. So, the goal is now to rebuild the calipers. I gave them to a machinest friend to remove the bleed screws, if possible. I'm not sure which of these would be the better choice, even though one has more pieces than the other. Do either of these have the caliper slide bushings? It's hard for me to tell. Centric (six pieces) https://www.rockauto.com/en...&cc=1249107&jsn=2429 Carlson (eight pieces) https://www.rockauto.com/en...&cc=1249107&jsn=2430