Battery Isolation With Easy Switch (Idea) (Page 2/2)
theogre MAR 21, 01:45 AM
After reread top...
Discon battery completely or do nothing.
Why?

If you leave somethings grounded and not others when discon part is active.....
You can find more Sneak Path items and if you turn the key to Acc On or worse Start can Kill the ECM etc.
Not all "grounds" in the car are power related. A Common one is covered here... Ground "Myth" notes But may try to be a power ground.

OE Starter Solenoid has heavy wire for a reason... GM S-solenoids use ~ 35 amps because is also pulling in the arm for the Bendix. Unlike Ford etc that just a big relay.
If the Starter Motor tries to Run then can get even worse problems.
If normal ground path isn't available then can and will find other weak path(s). Even the Coolant will be turn into a Ground return and that will cause big problems.

9v battery won't last long even just as backup power for the radio and ECM. All are make to handle "12v" and 9v is just over cutout volts for many power regulator circuits.
Quick example: Many things use 7805 and related regulators that won't work w/ power source under ~ 2.5v above output volts. So standard 7805 5v reg needs ~ 7.5v min. 9v trick only really made for replacing a battery in a few hours max.

ECM will "lose" code data etc. w/o backup power so expect to have Idle problems until drive and relearn.

If the battery just backup a few items as does in a working Fiero and many others...
Even drawing a few ma can kill them if not run in weeks to months. Worse in cold weather because can freeze a low battery very easy. I tried to drive my cars every week. If I can't drive then check and charge the batteries so won't freeze.
skywurz MAR 21, 12:21 PM

quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:

I have the Archie's mounting box....He still sells it for $65.......http://www.v8archie.us/battery-tray-kit.html

My Battery weighs approx' 35 lbs... so that was almost a 1.5% weight shift forward...My stripper 85 SE V6 (2600 lbs) went from 42/58 to 43.5/56.5 weight distribution (I also removed the trunk blower)



Yeah I know he still has them. But I think i can make a steel framed one for less and faster. Looking at other posts I think i could make an L iron frame quite easily. Then line it with abs sheet stock. This should give me some good rigidity and prevent shorts if I decide to stick my terminals out by the front by the radiator. But I also like over engineering things (code for making things way more complicated and harder on my self than they really need to be)



quote
Originally posted by theogre:

After reread top...
Discon battery completely or do nothing.
Why?

If you leave somethings grounded and not others when discon part is active.....
You can find more Sneak Path items and if you turn the key to Acc On or worse Start can Kill the ECM etc.
Not all "grounds" in the car are power related. A Common one is covered here... Ground "Myth" notes But may try to be a power ground.

OE Starter Solenoid has heavy wire for a reason... GM S-solenoids use ~ 35 amps because is also pulling in the arm for the Bendix. Unlike Ford etc that just a big relay.
If the Starter Motor tries to Run then can get even worse problems.
If normal ground path isn't available then can and will find other weak path(s). Even the Coolant will be turn into a Ground return and that will cause big problems.

9v battery won't last long even just as backup power for the radio and ECM. All are make to handle "12v" and 9v is just over cutout volts for many power regulator circuits.
Quick example: Many things use 7805 and related regulators that won't work w/ power source under ~ 2.5v above output volts. So standard 7805 5v reg needs ~ 7.5v min. 9v trick only really made for replacing a battery in a few hours max.

ECM will "lose" code data etc. w/o backup power so expect to have Idle problems until drive and relearn.

If the battery just backup a few items as does in a working Fiero and many others...
Even drawing a few ma can kill them if not run in weeks to months. Worse in cold weather because can freeze a low battery very easy. I tried to drive my cars every week. If I can't drive then check and charge the batteries so won't freeze.




Good points. I had previously read your "Sneak Path" this is one of the reasons im switching positive + and not ground -.

As you also point out and I had noted in my edit above before the thread took off. I could put the ECU and Radio on the hot side and not switch it off to preserve codes and presets. However as you have also pointed out these too are drains on the batt worth notation.
I will probably pick up one of the tools you suggested to get a current read so i can do some math on the amount of draw taking place. If its over 40ma its probably not worth it to me as it will drain the batt to a damaging level in about a month.


I also am worried about the water proofing for a relay in the original battery location. This is all looking more feasible/better idea with a batt relocation.

There has also been a slight thought of added security behind this. As i mentioned i have an alarm and it does kill the starter however mid level thieves have been getting around this for years already. Its good at preventing the casual joy rider. (I also probably need to replace my alarm as when its set it kills my battery in 2 days.) I have also been working on an Arduino based tracker that is a fork of my moto tracker https://skywurz.com/node/100 seen here (there is a demo there i need to fix my url colors). The car version does not have the lipo battery like the bike version does. It has to use a different modem for this. I feared the internal temps of the car with the batt as well as i already don't like them on the bikes. The second thing is they are more passive they do not get power until the ignition is on (Unlike the bikes where they have a sock sensor that texts me. ).

theogre MAR 22, 12:19 PM
ECM Standby Power is Fusible Link F to + box under C500, Not a Fuse. ECM Fuse is Main Power to ECM and completely Off w/ I-Key Off.
Radio Standby Power is BATT fuse and problem there covered in sneak path page.

Relays and other parts not made for this job can't just be DIY "water proofed" and last in the engine bay etc.
+ many sold thru Eflay amzn etc are "fakes" and data listed or on the part isn't actuate at best. Even UL and other marks are often fakes.
Worse, when they go sideways, they often burn slowly causing Low Volt problems that can fry other E-parts covered in Electric Motors If they cook fast, can cause a fire and never blow a fuse or fusible link like CP burn up Gen2 module and motors after "fixing" the module. ( http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...130314-2-095675.html )

Even if you buy a good one from Digikey etc... It likely hates Engine Bay Temps. Relay Coils Generate heat and can't get rid of that in hot areas, more so w/ bay heat reaches 200+°F easy.

I wouldn't even recommend many Discon parts made this job because of lid venting allows rains snow etc on nearly everything there.
skywurz MAR 22, 02:06 PM

quote
Originally posted by theogre:

Even if you buy a good one from Digikey etc... It likely hates Engine Bay Temps. Relay Coils Generate heat and can't get rid of that in hot areas, more so w/ bay heat reaches 200+°F easy.




Crud you are right I spaced the Engine heat. For some reason i was only thinking ambient. That cheesy unit says its good for 185F.

The other thing about DIY weather proofing is the lack of heat disbursement. I also agree that sticking just about any electrical component including discon parts made for the job in that area is a bad idea. This all means this is probably a better idea for if the batt is moved up front... I mean i guess i could punch the stuff into the trunk but for some reason i really hate that idea.
theogre MAR 22, 06:27 PM
Many engine bays are hotter then Fiero on same roads and in same weather but all "consumer" to "hospital" grade parts won't last long in there even if you can find "water proof" parts. ICM etc are Automotive Grade, Sim to Military Grade/Spec, to survive the heat. Mil Spec parts are really real and often Expensive and often Rare. Many Mil Spec parts are made to fit 1 thing and that thing is often a "limited release" item. An "easy" example: You can still find 7400 family logic chips... Many 74 PN have/had a 54 PN that's the Mil Spec version and cost 2x to 10x the price of 74 series. Most time you see Auto Grade or Mil Spec on a box is BS. ACDelco and most others won't bother advertising that to normal retail buyers. (Is also why many in IT world Hate hearing VPN etc has "Military Grade" Encryption.)

"They" make Battery Discon parts for Racing etc. but many of those don't last long. Many Race Org's require them to kill power in a wreck and don't care about that.
"They" make parts for Tow operators too like Heavy Plugs for Jumper Cables. Depending how installed and where truck "lives" often the truck side plug is in bad shape after 1 or 2 winters. Anything exposed to road salt or salt spay near the ocean doesn't last w/o a lot of help...

Fiero vents are why for cleaning ground bolted to engine and related I tell all to coat w/ brake or silicone grease.
Permatex Brake grease is better and harder for "water" getting in the joint. Is very hard to washout unless maybe hit a joint directly w/ power washer.

I used either other vehicles too but Fiero need this badly in engine bay and near HL.
G101 & G102 and the "frame" can rot starting w/ the hole for the screw to attach them. I had to drill a new hole for G102 because rust made the metal too weak to use again.

Is why I use better spark plugs too. "Double Platinum" is nice for DIS engine but main point is Shell is Nickle coated or otherwise won't rust in months.
Dennis LaGrua MAR 23, 08:42 PM
Want an effective "no start" anti-theft switch locate the wire coming from the ignition switch. Cut in and insert a HD switch inline. Hide it under the dash. Or for manual splice into the leads on your clutch safety switch and put a switch in that circuit. When either of those switches are turned off it will not be possible to start the car.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "