Looking for evidence of coolant in an '84 Duke combustion chamber (Page 2/2)
Patrick OCT 31, 12:05 AM

quote
Originally posted by David Hambleton:

One steam cleaned piston:



Certainly demonstrates the potential benefit of a correctly calibrated water injection system.
David Hambleton DEC 05, 08:56 PM
Reassembled & back on the road again.
Just over 395,000 kilometers (245,440 miles) on the odometer now; 293,000 km (182,060 miles) since the free Generous Motors engine replacement the last time it was trying to burn coolant in 1988.
82-T/A [At Work] MAY 11, 03:02 PM

quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Certainly demonstrates the potential benefit of a correctly calibrated water injection system.




100% agree here... I'm wondering how this might be something that could be implemented? Where would you have the water inject into, and wouldn't it affect the ability for the fuel to fire?

I had a friend to designed / created a hydrogen cell for his 3800 Series 2 that he installed in his Citation X/11. He used some sort of pot / dial that he would adjust to increase or decrease the amount of hydrogen he introduced into the combustion chamber. The more hydrogen he introduced, the less gasoline the injectors used. It was pretty fantastic too... and it used the TPS on the throttle body to increase or decrease the voltage on the coil that sat in this vat of water that consisted of water and baking soda (or something). It was very impressive. He got like 40+ miles to the gallon and when he tore down the engine (just for fun because he decided to put a 4.9 in there instead), the pistons were GLEAMING... like that one.

Definitely don't need to go through all that. But would be neat to have a little water bottle that dripped water into the intake to cool the piston tops and clean them.
Patrick MAY 11, 06:36 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

I'm wondering how this might be something that could be implemented? Where would you have the water inject into, and wouldn't it affect the ability for the fuel to fire?



Sometime in the mid 70's, I built a really primitive water injection system for my big block Chevy. The water bottle (a quart size canning jar!) was plumbed into the PCV system. Gases from the crankcase that normally were sucked directly into a port on the intake manifold would first bubble through several inches of water in the bottle before then entering the intake manifold port. It actually worked pretty good. The combustion chambers and spark plugs were all spotless, and the engine ran great.

If I was to do it again, I'd want to have some way of metering the amount of water that was being used.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-11-2023).]

82-T/A [At Work] MAY 12, 10:14 AM

quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Sometime in the mid 70's, I built a really primitive water injection system for my big block Chevy. The water bottle (a quart size canning jar!) was plumbed into the PCV system. Gases from the crankcase that normally were sucked directly into a port on the intake manifold would first bubble through several inches of water in the bottle before then entering the intake manifold port. It actually worked pretty good. The combustion chambers and spark plugs were all spotless, and the engine ran great.

If I was to do it again, I'd want to have some way of metering the amount of water that was being used.





I think I'm going to make a post about this, and I'll do some research before I post about it. I want to get some larger thoughts and discussions. There are at least a dozen "water injection" kits available on Summit Racing, but they all seem to be about boost / coolers, or for diesel engines. I want to first figure out what the "negatives" of water injection might be. Because if it's all positive... I don't know why we wouldn't just want to have it on every engine, across the board. Even say, my daughter's Iron Duke. If her engine (internals) could run a little cooler, run cleaner (meaning efficiency is maintained), and it has no ill effects on anything else... then why not?
sleek fiero MAY 12, 10:57 AM
I would think a water ethanol/methanol mix might work in an injection system. It might be more efficient and vaporize better, run cooler and supply a percentage of O2 for combustion. Might be less chance for water corrosion. sleek
theogre MAY 12, 12:25 PM

quote
Originally posted by David Hambleton:
One steam cleaned piston...

Often #4 is clean because coolant leak between #4 intake port and coolant port to TBI.
This happens a lot and why Felpro made better intake man gaskets most versions on dukes.

⚠️ Warning: Coolant leaks that "Burn" in a cyl can poison the Catalyst and O2 sensor and ruin them.
Patrick MAY 12, 03:01 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

I want to first figure out what the "negatives" of water injection might be. Because if it's all positive... I don't know why we wouldn't just want to have it on every engine, across the board.



Two negatives that I can think of off the top of my head.

First negative is the same as for oil catch cans... and that's the extra required maintenance. Catch cans need to be emptied, whereas water injection systems are the opposite... they need to be refilled quite often. Not a big deal for an "enthusiast", but Joe & Jill Public can barely get their crankcase oil changed on a regular basis.

Second negative (for those located in regions which experience frigid winter temps) is that straight water will freeze in the injection system. Sure, there are additives to prevent this... but it is a nuisance with water injection systems when outdoor temperatures drop.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-12-2023).]

theogre MAY 12, 08:44 PM
Water injection has a lot of problems besides just above. I'm not getting into this except...

quote
Originally posted by sleek fiero:
I would think a water ethanol/methanol mix might work in an injection system. It might be more efficient and vaporize better, run cooler and supply a percentage of O2 for combustion. Might be less chance for water corrosion. sleek

Ethanol and others have problems too.
ECM/PCM not in Flex Fuel vehicle can only handle 0-10% ethanol.
Methanol is limited to < 5%. Preferred 0% by most car makers because even corrosive then Ethanol.
Other things besides Coolant can wreck the cat and O2.