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| Frustrated crank no start (Page 2/4) |
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Patrick
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NOV 13, 08:46 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by JWTMedic:
I have set initial timing to both 0 and 10 degrees and still nothing...
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Don't know why you'd even try with 0°. 
You haven't answered a question posed to you earlier. Do you have spark at the plugs? And if so, it needs to be strong enough to jump a 1/4" gap under atmospheric pressure.[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 11-13-2022).]
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JWTMedic
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NOV 13, 09:01 PM
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I tried "0" degrees because that was mentioned in a previous thread.... I agree doesn't make sense but I was desperate. And yes there is spark at the plug, I took it out with the wire attached and grounded it out on the block and had spark, I did that with #1,3,5 plugs all had spark
[sup][/sup]
| quote | Originally posted by Patrick:
Don't know why you'd even try with 0°.
You haven't answered a question posed to you earlier. Do you have spark at the plugs? And if so, it needs to be strong enough to jump a 1/4" gap under atmospheric pressure.
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Patrick
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NOV 13, 09:16 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by JWTMedic:
And yes there is spark at the plug, I took it out with the wire attached and grounded it out on the block and had spark, I did that with #1,3,5 plugs all had spark.
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That means next to nothing.
| quote | Originally posted by Patrick:
And if so, it needs to be strong enough to jump a 1/4" gap under atmospheric pressure.
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greenturnedblue
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NOV 13, 09:44 PM
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We have been over this time and time again with people with similar issues. If you 'have spark' but it is very weak, it will not be able to make the jump from the rotor to the contacts inside the distributor cap or even across the spark plug. A yellow or orange spark is weak and will likely not be powerful enough to jump across the gap. A nice bright white spark on the other hand has enough voltage to make the jump. A weak spark would indicate a failing ignition coil
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JWTMedic
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NOV 24, 04:36 PM
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So replaced the coil twice in the last week even though the one that was in the car was less than a year old, this was based on your recommendation and nothing still just cranks... sorry we have been over this time and time again
It has a brand new battery, new plugs and wires, distributor, cap and rotor. Again, it ran and drove fine, I pulled it into the garage and noticed the cold start Injector was leaking at the fuel rail tube due to a torn O ring, replaced the O ring and now will only crank... nothing changed but the O ring, which was from the Fiero Store so I know it was the correct size. My local mechanic says he doesn't want to take the time in the shop to try amd trouble shoot it. I told him everything that has been done as well as gave him all of ya alls recommendations.
| quote | Originally posted by greenturnedblue:
We have been over this time and time again with people with similar issues. If you 'have spark' but it is very weak, it will not be able to make the jump from the rotor to the contacts inside the distributor cap or even across the spark plug. A yellow or orange spark is weak and will likely not be powerful enough to jump across the gap. A nice bright white spark on the other hand has enough voltage to make the jump. A weak spark would indicate a failing ignition coil |
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greenturnedblue
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NOV 24, 06:43 PM
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Look at Patrick and I's posts directly above yours. If you have spark but it is weak, the car will not start
What I mean when I say we have been over this time and time again in the past, is that someone will post their car wont start and ask for help. They say "yes I have spark" without realizing spark itself is pretty irrelevant. It must jump from the distributor rotor to the contact on the inside of the rotor cap, and also from the plug to the ground to ignite the fuel in the cylinder. If none of these are possible the car will not start.
So, check to make sure you have a nice, strong spark. Disconnect the plug wire from the plug, stick a metal screwdriver inside it, hold the metal rod of the screwdriver approx 1/4" away from a ground point (plenum bolt will work). Get a helper to crank it while you are holding the screwdriver, and observe the color of the spark. It should be bright white. Not amber, or yellow, or orange, or else the car will not start
If you do have a strong white spark, then try holding the accelerator pedal all the way down while you crank it for a good 5 or 10 seconds. This will put it in "clear flood" mode and disable the injectors to burn off excess fuel if the cylinders are flooded. I say this because earlier you mentioned the plugs were all damp with fuel. That will also result in a crank no start condition.[This message has been edited by greenturnedblue (edited 11-24-2022).]
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JWTMedic
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NOV 24, 07:53 PM
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Thanks for the response, shouldn't a new coil remedy the poor spark? Everything is new, what would cause poor spark, and yes I have what appears to be white'ish.. maybe I will try to upload a video, will keep you posted
| quote | Originally posted by greenturnedblue:
Look at Patrick and I's posts directly above yours. If you have spark but it is weak, the car will not start
What I mean when I say we have been over this time and time again in the past, is that someone will post their car wont start and ask for help. They say "yes I have spark" without realizing spark itself is pretty irrelevant. It must jump from the distributor rotor to the contact on the inside of the rotor cap, and also from the plug to the ground to ignite the fuel in the cylinder. If none of these are possible the car will not start.
So, check to make sure you have a nice, strong spark. Disconnect the plug wire from the plug, stick a metal screwdriver inside it, hold the metal rod of the screwdriver approx 1/4" away from a ground point (plenum bolt will work). Get a helper to crank it while you are holding the screwdriver, and observe the color of the spark. It should be bright white. Not amber, or yellow, or orange, or else the car will not start
If you do have a strong white spark, then try holding the accelerator pedal all the way down while you crank it for a good 5 or 10 seconds. This will put it in "clear flood" mode and disable the injectors to burn off excess fuel if the cylinders are flooded. I say this because earlier you mentioned the plugs were all damp with fuel. That will also result in a crank no start condition.
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JWTMedic
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NOV 24, 08:03 PM
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  [This message has been edited by JWTMedic (edited 11-24-2022).]
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JWTMedic
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NOV 24, 08:06 PM
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Please see pics below, looks like a really good spark to me
QUOTE]Originally posted by greenturnedblue:
Look at Patrick and I's posts directly above yours. If you have spark but it is weak, the car will not start
What I mean when I say we have been over this time and time again in the past, is that someone will post their car wont start and ask for help. They say "yes I have spark" without realizing spark itself is pretty irrelevant. It must jump from the distributor rotor to the contact on the inside of the rotor cap, and also from the plug to the ground to ignite the fuel in the cylinder. If none of these are possible the car will not start.
So, check to make sure you have a nice, strong spark. Disconnect the plug wire from the plug, stick a metal screwdriver inside it, hold the metal rod of the screwdriver approx 1/4" away from a ground point (plenum bolt will work). Get a helper to crank it while you are holding the screwdriver, and observe the color of the spark. It should be bright white. Not amber, or yellow, or orange, or else the car will not start
If you do have a strong white spark, then try holding the accelerator pedal all the way down while you crank it for a good 5 or 10 seconds. This will put it in "clear flood" mode and disable the injectors to burn off excess fuel if the cylinders are flooded. I say this because earlier you mentioned the plugs were all damp with fuel. That will also result in a crank no start condition.
[/QUOTE]
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greenturnedblue
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NOV 24, 08:29 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by JWTMedic:
shouldn't a new coil remedy the poor spark?
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You would think but you never know...
Anyways, yes looks good. Can you pull the rear plugs and post pictures of the tips? I suspect they are fouled from all the cranking. First, quickly crank it 5-10 seconds with the accelerator fully depressed to try and clear the flood. If it starts to fart and gurgle you are on the right track
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