Yet another my clutch wont disengage thread (Page 2/3)
sdgdf MAY 18, 10:05 PM
Years ago I had disengagement problems on my 86 and I ended up using Rodney’s adjustable banjo and a longer rod in my slave cylinder. Like 1/2” longer. I was just really tired of it disengaging right at the floor and having trouble with 1st and reverse. After I did that I never had much trouble getting that perfect bleed just so I could shift.
Patrick MAY 19, 03:55 AM

quote
Originally posted by sdgdf:

Years ago I had disengagement problems on my 86 and I ended up using Rodney’s adjustable banjo and a longer rod in my slave cylinder. Like 1/2” longer.



It's been stated many many times here over the years, that a longer (than factory) push rod for the slave makes absolutely no difference with the amount of clutch fork travel... due to the way a hydraulic clutch operates. The improvement in disengagement you experienced would've been entirely due to the longer banjo, which was allowing full stroke of the pedal.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-19-2023).]

Patrick MAY 20, 01:52 AM

quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

This is what I used to create my adjustable banjo.... a coupling nut... probably 1/4"-20.

CLICK FOR FULL SIZE



Turns out the coupling nut is actually 5/16"-18.

I was poking around my basement, and I found the adjustable banjo that I had made for my Formula. I had forgotten that when I replaced its clutch master, I used the banjo that came with the new master, as it was the same length as what my adjustable banjo had been set to. It's not pretty, but it worked well when I needed it.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-20-2023).]

shemdogg MAY 20, 07:35 PM
Thanks for fixing that link Patrick, I dunno how . Coupling nut! That was the term that escaped me but exactly what I was looking for and couldnt find. Def not my best work but best I could do w what was on hand and im an impatient mofo. Anywho, both rodneys orders and the new clutch master showed late yesterday. I swapped the banjo on the master and the dubble seal deal on the slave so itd be reddy fer today. Got at it at 7am and it fought me fought me fought me. Pedal travel maxed out, no air, feels great, no clutch. Bumping the starter in gear w the clutch in as my test. Everything I tried just didnt work. Slave will not move past 3/4", even bled the slave w the bleeder removed and compressing it w one hand while I install the bleeder. OW! Still nothing. Cuz came over to help, we tried the old skool bleeding. Then the new master took a chit lol. Had my kids tball game so hadta leave. Came back later and installed the old abomination , bled it, feels good, still dragging. Checking the amount of travel w a 6' level to push the clutch while I watch it. It will not move more than 3/4". No way jose. Id have to see it on another car to believe it, done hundreds of clutches and never had this much trubble. The forks gotta be bent, and im not dropping the motor to check, so I threw a 9mm deep socket on the end of the slave rod and bolted it up. Guess whos got some clutch action baby! Drove the car for the first time! Got halfway down the street before I remembered the tires are beyond shot and turned around lol.

Thanks you guys!

happy happy dawg dawg
Larryinkc MAY 20, 10:47 PM
I installed an Isuzu clutch slave cylinder on my 3800 swap with a Getrag 5 speed several years ago to reduce clutch pedal travel, it has a smaller bore. My clutch pedal is level with the brake pedal and it has made shifting better on my car. I would not go back to the Getrag slave cylinder.

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum9/HTML/000025.html
Patrick MAY 21, 01:11 AM

quote
Originally posted by shemdogg:

Slave will not move past 3/4"... so I threw a 9mm deep socket on the end of the slave rod and bolted it up. Guess whos got some clutch action baby!

happy happy dawg dawg



Yes, I understand you're happy... for now ... but something is still messed up.

With any of the banjos you have there installed, does the clutch pedal sit 1" above the brake pedal... with no pressure on the master?

With the clutch pedal at that height, pushing it to the floor will easily move the slave push rod 1-1/8"... on a system with a good master, good slave, and properly bled.

This is a 5-spd Getrag correct? Any idea how long the slave push rod is? It makes no sense that extending it with a socket allows the clutch to now disengage, unless the push rod is shorter than it's supposed to be, or the lever it pushes against is cracked, or the fork is buggered.


quote
Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere Here:

Getrag slave rod length - 3.5 inches (3 1/2")
Isuzu & muncie - 5.625 inches (5 5/8")


[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-21-2023).]

shemdogg MAY 21, 09:36 AM
Larry thank you for the link, off all the clutch threads I found and read I never saw a mention of using the big joe izuzu slave. Ill try that if this clutch stops working before the swap or during. Tired of playing w the clutch.

Patrick the clutch pedal is well above the brake now, no pressure on it, and it starts moving the slave the instant you push the pedal and doesnt bottom out on the master. Just wont move more than 3/4" no matter what. There is no air in the clutch lines. So either the quality of these new parts is questionable, or I have a bent fork. The very best I could get it, I could pop it out of gear w the motor running but not go into gears. The socket I put on the slave rod extends it by about 5/16" and it doesnt travel that much more now, but It does let me shift. And it feels good, no rubbing or grinding. Other than my bad select cable. Gonna do a clutch troubleshooting write up w all the info I found one of these days.

shem
82-T/A [At Work] MAY 21, 11:17 AM
I had a 2008 Jeep Patriot with only 87k miles on it... the day before I was going to move from Texas to Florida, I was going to tow it with my Crown Victoria. I could NOT get it into gear... (or in this case, out of gear if it had been in gear). The clutch slave cyl had sprung a leak, and that was that.

I realized at that point, it wasn't meant to be... so I donated it to the first place that could pick it up the next morning... which was Make a Wish foundation. It had been a fantastic car, but it was a spare car, and I was like F-it... still a little pissed, but Make a Wish ended up getting ~$2,800 for it at auction, so good for them.
Larryinkc MAY 21, 04:04 PM

quote
Originally posted by shemdogg:

Larry thank you for the link, off all the clutch threads I found and read I never saw a mention of using the big joe izuzu slave. Ill try that if this clutch stops working before the swap or during. Tired of playing w the clutch.


shem



I have a Spec Stage 3+ in my 3800 swap and with a new Rodney master and Getrag slave I had to press the clutch pedal all the way to the floor to keep the clutch from dragging when shifting. My DD clutch pedal didn't need any where near that much travel and my left foot likes to do the same thing in both cars so I was always getting difficult shifts due to clutch not fully disengaging. Installing the Isuzu slave fixed it.
Patrick MAY 21, 06:58 PM

quote
Originally posted by shemdogg:

Patrick the clutch pedal is well above the brake now, no pressure on it, and it starts moving the slave the instant you push the pedal and doesnt bottom out on the master. Just wont move more than 3/4" no matter what. There is no air in the clutch lines. So either the quality of these new parts is questionable, or I have a bent fork.



The slave needs to move 1-1/8" to properly disengage the clutch. If your slave is only moving 3/4", I don't understand how you can come to the possible conclusion that you have "a bent fork". I'd only suspect the fork if your slave was indeed moving 1-1/8" and yet the clutch was still failing to disengage... but that's not your issue.

I know you're sick of working on it, and I'm certainly not suggesting that you have to, but sooner or later it's going to bite you... as something is wrong (and it's not the fork). It's a matter of physics. When the master cylinder is depressed, the amount of fluid displaced will move the slave cylinder a similar distance (if the bore size is the same). The bore sizes may be a bit different, but you catch my drift. Considering how far the piston in the master cylinder can be moved (if everything up front is working correctly and the pedal has a full stroke), it makes no sense that the slave is only moving 3/4 of an inch. Either the line and/or internal seals are leaking and/or there is air in the system.

Did you say that you had installed a Dickman clutch master cylinder? If I recall correctly, I believe there have been reported issues with some of them.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-21-2023).]