WTF?!? Make sure you check your SPARE (Page 3/3)
cvxjet DEC 20, 06:31 PM

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Originally posted by fierobear:


A friend of mine told me the story of a conversation he had with an engineer about ozone and UV being an issue in the US west. Tires and other rubber products degrade faster in places like California (where I lived for 50 years). He said the tire manufacturers have to use a different formulation for tires sold in the west. At least, that's what I was told. The damage may have been done in CA.



Ozone (which is in the atmosphere) and UV (which is from the sun) is everywhere.......CA (and the west) do not have a monopoly on them.....

theogre DEC 20, 08:32 PM

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Originally posted by lateFormula:
Ozone is naturally occurring and is everywhere -

More so in Hot weather when Several VOC & other Fumes work w/ heat & sun light to Make Ozone & part of PA Code Orange & related in other states during summer.

E2A--> Is why many places w/ "Code Orange" days city/state & News outlets tell people to avoid pumping gas during the day if possible.
Even stations w/ coaxial nozzles will let fumes out to generate Ground Level Ozone on hot days.

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 12-20-2023).]

theogre DEC 20, 10:34 PM

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Originally posted by 1985 Fiero GT:
First off, I work at a garage, and 60psi is not high pressure. Many pickup trucks have 60-80, maybe higher. Tire cages are never used on consumer one piece rims, at least where I live. Tire cages are usually used on commercial wheels, multi piece rim or not, as those are aired up to over 100psi, yes any rim/tire can fail, but tire cages don't even exist in my garage for anything that is less then 2 feet wide, we were inflating a tiny little forklift tire the other day, and we put one of the legs of the lift over it and lowered it into the wheel. Like people have said, shops may not want to do a spare for insurance purposes, as it is emergency equipment, and as it is already a compromise to drive on it, a spare tire blowout would have much worse consequences then a normal tire blowout, as the car is already slightly off balance and tire is much thinner. Also if "many tire stores" refuse to work on cars with TPMS, there would be no tire stores, because every vehicle since 2008 came with TPMS, that's a lot of people who can't get their tires changed in the winter. Tire shops don't ask over the phone "do you have TPMS" when you schedule an appointment, they remove the wheels, and when the pop the first bead they say to their co-workers whether there is TPMS. If there is, they are extra careful, if there isn't, they go on with it. The only way a shop will find out if there is TPMS, is by opening the tire, they could scan it, or look carefully at the valves stems, but to do that would use up more time then it's worth, especially since they aren't going to refuse the customer if it does have TPMS. If you have ever been to a shop that refused to service your vehicle because it has TPMS, they are not qualified to do anything or give you any information, including about tire cages

You have no clue how US businesses work under State rules/laws, OHSA or Insurance rules.

Oh Many US Shops skip cages & other tire safety items like fools running your shop until someone is hurt or killed by only "low pressure tire" w/ 30psi then state &/or OHSA investigates & get fined big $ plus get sued by the worker or survivors of same.

Old Atlas machines & related had/has cone holding the center down was good @ keep a burst tire contained so rim can't move but most "no touch" machines don't even have that.

TPMS Does Not Require Wheel Sensors. A hell of a lot of vehicles uses ABS Tone Rings to monitor wheel speed as I said above to switch On 1 Warning Light for "flat tire" on the dash w/ this Symbol...

Both FMVSS & CMVSS allows that & more as long as will warn drivers for a low/flat tire anywhere on the vehicle.
Main problem w/ ABS as TPMS setup when all tires are low pressure for cold weather. But many Sensor systems may not "trip" until have very low pressure too more so when all are ~ same pressure. IOW If CI spec is 30-33 many sensor setups won't trip until low as 25 psi or even lower.


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The only way a shop will find out if there is TPMS, is by opening the tire, they could scan it, or look carefully at the valves stems, but to do that would use up more time then it's worth, especially since they aren't going to refuse the customer if it does have TPMS.

Wrong. "Real" shops have Computers w/ every model of vehicles & most good databases show whether or not has Wheel Sensors just to write a work ticket. Plus many sensor cars show what tire is low w/ separate display somewhere on/in the dash.

Many US Chains don't work on many Sensor cars not just local shops. SOME Shops add extra fee because eats more time to deal w/ sensor tires.

Many US shops including Car Dealers also refuse to fix any tire that has "Fix-a-flat" goo as temp repair or preventive measure including "Royal Seal" tires was OE for some old GM cars decades ago. Many claim ruins the tire but simple do not want to eat time to clean the crap out to fix them. Worse now w/ sensor tires that the goo dries or reacts w/ sensor & dies days to weeks later then blame the shop. The only "fix" is replace the tire after having owner to sign off the sensor has no warranty because of "Fix-a-flat." Or the replacing tire will need new sensor too to get warranty. (The "brand" is generic use of same or similar thing made by others.)

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 12-20-2023).]

Mickey_Moose DEC 21, 08:13 AM
Unless the rubber was recently replaced, this is not surprising as the newest tire that came with the Fiero is 35 years old.

Rubber has a shelf life - hence the date codes printed on the tires. Tires are not meant to last more than 10 years max.


quote
Originally posted by theogre:

Many US Chains don't work on many Sensor cars not just local shops. SOME Shops add extra fee because eats more time to deal w/ sensor tires.



WTF?? I find this hard to believe since many vehicles use TPMS sensors. Yes, they add extra fees, but I can't see a shop refusing to replace a tire on a vehicle because it has TPMS sensors installed.

eBay/Amazon/etc is full of people selling TPMS sensors for cheaper than OEM - so they are well used.

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 12-21-2023).]

1985 Fiero GT DEC 21, 02:32 PM

quote
Originally posted by theogre:

You have no clue how US businesses work under State rules/laws, OHSA or Insurance rules.

Oh Many US Shops skip cages & other tire safety items like fools running your shop until someone is hurt or killed by only "low pressure tire" w/ 30psi then state &/or OHSA investigates & get fined big $ plus get sued by the worker or survivors of same.

Old Atlas machines & related had/has cone holding the center down was good @ keep a burst tire contained so rim can't move but most "no touch" machines don't even have that.

Wrong. "Real" shops have Computers w/ every model of vehicles & most good databases show whether or not has Wheel Sensors just to write a work ticket. Plus many sensor cars show what tire is low w/ separate display somewhere on/in the dash.





I don't have any idea about US businesses, but I do know about their Canadian counterparts, and for the land of the free, you have a lot of regulations for common sense stuff, like don't put your head above a tire that's being inflated, the machines used to mount tires clamp into the inside of the rim, not a replacement for a tire cage in high psi tires (over 100) but more then solid enough for anything under that, besides which the reason tire cages are used is to prevent a split rim from splitting, which shoots half the rim across the room. With single piece rims, if a tire blows up, little pieces of tire fly, which wouldn't necessarily be stopped by a cage, if the tire blows over the bead, nothing flys but a lot of air, if the rim is clamped in the machine.



You forget that by now half the vehicles that came with TPMS don't have it any more, whether from damage, dead batteries, changing wheels, etc. so any shop that provides (or refuses) work on a vehicle based off of a computer and TPMS sensors doesn't know what they are doing and should not be servicing anyone or giving any advice.
fierobear DEC 23, 07:30 PM

quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:


Ozone (which is in the atmosphere) and UV (which is from the sun) is everywhere.......CA (and the west) do not have a monopoly on them.....



I don't know if you've met Brian G. from the club, but he told me the story. That's all I know.
fierobear DEC 23, 07:46 PM
ANOTHER spare discovered that blew out. When I moved from California to the Carolinas, I bought a sea container and packed the contents of my shop into it for shipping. I had stacks of tires in there, including some donut spares, and left most of them in the container for storage. I needed a new spare for the 88GT, so I went into the container to get another spare. These containers get HOT during the summer. When I was loading it, the outside temperature was in the 90s, and I was curious - I aimed a non-contact thermometer at the walls inside, and the surface temperature was approaching 130 dF. So I'd attribute this blowout to age plus temperature extremes...



Vintage-Nut DEC 24, 11:06 AM
Yes - environmental factors that affect the lifespan of rubber like widely fluctuating temperatures..............