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| Completely new fuel injection system computer? (Page 7/8) |
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82-T/A [At Work]
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JUL 29, 05:55 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by phonedawgz:
Is your block/crank set up for the 7x crank pick up? |
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No, but I can pick up the feed off the distributor pre-ignition control module.
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dobey
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JUL 29, 05:57 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
I can't do that... my engine is 3.2 liters of displacement now, and I have 17# injectors. I also have an aftermarket cam. It's the shitty Phase-2 Fireball cam right now from ARI, but I plan on swapping in the H272 cam that I bought like 5-6 years ago.
I'm pretty sure the ECM can't exactly handle that? I'm not asking for Ferrari performance, but I want to be able to at least get the benefit of the doubt. I don't want hunting idle, or the slow ECM response.
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It will do fine after a bit of driving. It won't be optimum, but stock ECMs of the 80s are pretty forgiving in terms of performance mods, because they are too slow and have too little memory, to really do much. There's a reason the new LSx and Ecotec engines are able to squeeze so much power out of them, and it's not just because of injectors or DOHC. The ECMs today are quite powerful, and have a lot of storage. They can do a lot more math, a lot faster, and referencing a lot more tables, than what 80s ECMs could do.
And at least you'll be driving it.
And if you really don't want to just throw the stock ECM in and drive it, then pay Darth Fiero or someone to just make a harness for the 7730 swap, and throw a tune in for the mods you have, and be done with it. Even if you can just plug a USB cable into the $1000 aftermarket systems, you're still going to get incredibly frustrated trying to program it.
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phonedawgz
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JUL 29, 10:32 PM
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Anything that says it will 'autotune' itself is flat out lie the way I see it.
It's impossible for a system to auto tune itself at cold start.
It's impossible for a system to auto tune itself before the O2 sensor warms up.
It's impossible for a system to auto tune advance without a knock sensor
Even with a knock sensor it's pretty much impossible for a system to auto tune advance.
It's impossible to auto tune for WOT.
It's impossible to auto tune for Power Enrichment.
You don't have a cam sensor so you can't run sequential. If you run an OBD2 PCM you are going to have to dumb it down quite a bit to get it to run properly without the cam sensor. I don't see this working if you keep your distributor also.
So here's my thoughts. Get a 7730 harness and install it. Run DIS if you can but without a crank pick up you have to run the distributor. Run a V6 7730 knock sensor. Drop the EGR, you don't need it and why go through with converting to the digital EGR conversion for a car that isn't ran that much. Get a best guess tune from Ryan Gick. Run the Moates Ostrich 2 on your 7730 so you can flash program it. You should already have a wideband O2 on your engine but if not get one. Now someone is going to have to log and tune your setup sometime. You aren't running stock. Ryan's best guess tune should run fairly well but it might not. You have a complicated non-stock engine (question). Don't expect a simple answer to be available. Be ready to have someone log the ECM and send the results Ryan to get it perfect. If you don't have the time to tune it pay someone to do it for you locally. Get it the tune figured out and locked down. Then finally - when you do have the tune finalized put it on a flash prom and pull the ostrich so you don't have to worry about any dependability issues with the extra electronics.
If you do tune yourself - TunerPro RT is a great program for both logging and for programming of the ECM. Again it's not a simple 'bolt in and it works' solution but it is about as simple as you can get it. It is very reasonable for you or your tuner to work with.
It will take less time to get a proper harness on it with a proper tune than it will to swap engines.
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Autotuning sounds to me like the quackery put out by the 'quick fix' people selling cure-alls for everything on afternoon TV or the internet
Jump to 13:00 - This was 'pretuned' by the Holley guys. It still needed tweaking
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fieroguru
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JUL 30, 06:10 PM
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I think it was about $450 total (back in 2006) for a Moates Ostrich Emulator, a modified PROM/Memcal to accept the Ostrich, the laptop cable for data logging, a tuning tutorial, and copies of Tunerpro RT and TunerCat (OBD1). I still have everything, but haven't touched in since 2010.
From there with several evenings of reading I was able to build a base tune for my SBC/Ramjet fiero (lots of different parts, so not an easy tune to dial in) in a few evenings. Over a few weeks of driving it, I was able to make it run much, much better than either of the mail order chips I had for it and did 18 dyno runs to dial in the fuel/spark for WOT.
I made some excel spreadsheets so I could pivot table the logged info to get the average adjustments for each cell (fuel and spark), so after each log, I saved the data, downloaded it to excel, ran the macro, copied the new parameters to Tunerpro RT, then flashed it to the emulator, and did another datalog.
I drove the car for several years and did all the tuning and never burned a chip.
Anytime you have a unique engine configuration it is going to take work to dial it in. Its not like other combos, so the mail order tunes will just be general guesses and not based on tuning similar setups 100's of times before. A trick I learned for the larger cammed OBD1 computers is set the base idle to be about 25 RPM higher than the target idle speed (vs. the 150 to 200 rpm lower that is normal). This kept the IAC from over compensating to slow the engine (it couldn't go any lower) and helped steady the idle.
| quote | Originally posted by dobey:
The ECMs today are quite powerful, and have a lot of storage. They can do a lot more math, a lot faster, and referencing a lot more tables, than what 80s ECMs could do.
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There are huge differences in processing speed and data logging capabilities between vintages of ECM's and even a huge difference in the OBD2 family (Gen3 vs Gen4).
From a data logging perspective... in a 15 minute log:
OBD1 (7730 ecm) will result in hundreds (possibly 1500 total) of rows of logged data (about 10 or so logged parameters).
OBD2 (99 LS1 ecm) will result in thousands (around 5-8K) rows of logged data (about 20 logged parameters - # of parameters changes the # of rows of logged data).
OBD2 Gen4 (2007 E67 ECM) will result in tens of thousands (40+K) rows of logged data (about 35+ logged parameters - you can log quite a bit w/o losing much resolution).
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fierosound
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AUG 04, 10:44 AM
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82-T/A [At Work]
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FEB 16, 01:23 PM
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OK, F-it...
I bought the God-damned thing.
I hemmed and hawed, and decided to just buy it. I ended up getting the FAST 2.0 EZ-EFI Multi-Port fuel injection upgrade system.
It basically comes with everything. I just need to figure out the timing stuff. The 2.0 verison DOES include the timing controller built in, just need to figure out the adaption between my stock distributor and that system. I'll get it in a few days... so, we'll see. I'll let everyone know.
The "Engine Quit" thread from the other day really just got me irked again. I'm tired of having old crap. I really want a modern fuel injection controller, without having to sit there with an old 90s laptop with DOS trying to figure out how to reflash EEPROMs for a system that communicates at 180 baud. At it's best, I have a 35+ year old wiring harness, and this new system comes with a completely new wiring harness that already has all new GM harness connectors on it.
It's absolutely WAY more than I need... like, way more. I probably could haev gone with the EZ-EFI 1.0, but I was just concerned that it didn't have the spark control that I needed... it just wasn't very clear to me. This one DOES have that, so that's important.
I'll let everyone know how it goes. I still have to get my Fiero out of storage though...
EDIT: It was about $1,500 shipped. If in the end it simply doesn't do what I want it to do... I'll use it on my 1969 Olds 455 Big Block which is currently sitting on an engine stand in a storage unit next to another car that's also in storage (my VW Bus).[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 02-16-2023).]
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82-T/A [At Work]
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FEB 16, 03:43 PM
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For anyone who cares, I'll probably create a new thread when it comes in, and use that to handle the install and any discussion on it. Figure it'll be easier to track if anyone is curious in the future. I may end up kicking myself, but at least I'll know. I'll make sure that when I do this, I carefully remove my old engine wiring harness so I can always put it back if need be. I won't be hacking anything up.
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PhatMax
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FEB 16, 05:43 PM
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I say go for it. Please document everything. Like you said, you have a Big block you can throw it on if it doesn’t work.
Good luck !
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sleek fiero
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FEB 22, 10:21 PM
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HI guys. I just went through this on my 85 gt. I started out trying to just upgrade with a 1227730 ecu but it did not work well. So I built a seven notch crank wheel (6 plus 1)and used an ls pickup with a batch fire coilpack from a 3.4 . this combination worked well .I bought an apu1 from moates but I am not savvy enough to write my own chip. Needless to say I gave up after spending gobs of time and money on this project. Then iI met the owner of a local shop and he talked me into starting fresh and installing an Emtron SL6 ecu and building a whole new harness. I stripped apart my distributor and installed a pickup wheel (12 tooth minus one) and another ls pickup to use as a cam sensor. I used 2 Bosch knock sensors installed in unused bolt bosses on each side of the block. I welded bosses on each header outlet to install duel Lambda o2 sensors .I installed Ford 52 lb.racing injectors.I changed out the holley throttle body for a larger bosch drive by wire unit and installed a Nissan throttle pedal out of a 370zx. For ignition i used 6 ls coils. A fellow from Emtron in Australia remote tuned it on the rolling road dyno at my friends speed shop.146 HP. at 5500 and 266 ft lbs at 4000. Very nice to drive now.
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sleek fiero
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FEB 22, 10:23 PM
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 This is a pic of finished upgrade.
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