The Turbo 3500 F23 swap (Page 74/79)
ericjon262 SEP 01, 09:37 PM

quote
Originally posted by zkhennings:

For a sanity check you could hook up a vacuum bleeder or a bike pump to your fuel pressure regulator and see if you can get the fuel pressure to increase or decrease. If it is not changing then the FPR is the problem, if it does change then something is going on with your reference line. I know you said it was not clogged but this could help you further isolate your issues.



yep, I already did that with the fuel pump relay triggered in test mode, it now shows a drop that approximates what I would expect when pulling vacuum. I also verified the sensing line clear all the way to the throttle, I'm 100% sure of that. I'm going to drill and tap the extra boss, and run the FPR sensing line to it.

------------------
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

I invited Lou Dias to trash me in my own thread, he refused. sorry. if he trashes your thread going after me. I tried.

zkhennings SEP 02, 10:37 AM
I was going to say you might have your reference line too close to the throttle to see vacuum but it should still see boost no?
La fiera SEP 02, 09:42 PM
In my kind of racing the more fuel I burn the lighter and faster I'll be. 8lbs per pound off fuel is a big deal If I can burn lots of fuel to make the car lighter. I only have 8 average laps at the most.
ericjon262 SEP 03, 06:21 PM

quote
Originally posted by zkhennings:

I was going to say you might have your reference line too close to the throttle to see vacuum but it should still see boost no?



it's been moved to the plenum anyways, I know that throttle sees enough to actuate the BOV, but it's also under different circumstances when it operates it, unfortunately, moving it didn't solve my "problem" tomorrow morning I plan to do more testing, I have a few ideas as to what might be causing it, but there's not much left that could be.


quote
Originally posted by La fiera:

In my kind of racing the more fuel I burn the lighter and faster I'll be. 8lbs per pound off fuel is a big deal If I can burn lots of fuel to make the car lighter. I only have 8 average laps at the most.



if 8 pounds is that big of a deal, you could save that and more with aluminum heads.

------------------
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

I invited Lou Dias to trash me in my own thread, he refused. sorry. if he trashes your thread going after me. I tried.

La fiera SEP 04, 12:26 AM

quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:


if 8 pounds is that big of a deal, you could save that and more with aluminum heads.



"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society which I alone am able to appreciate. And I am therefore no subject to your stupid laws Like using aluminum heads or a turbocharger because of a lack of creativity and ending up following the trends like weak minded individuals that become followers of a trend that limits their ingenuity.. And I ask you to NEVER allude them to my presence again."

You asked for it! Unlike you, I don't sell out. I have dignity.

[This message has been edited by La fiera (edited 09-04-2022).]

ericjon262 SEP 04, 02:30 PM

quote
Originally posted by La fiera:


"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society which I alone am able to appreciate. And I am therefore no subject to your stupid laws Like using aluminum heads or a turbocharger because of a lack of creativity and ends up following the trends like weak minded individuals that become followers of a trend that limits their ingenuity.. And I ask you to NEVER allude them to my presence again."

You asked for it! Unlike you, I don't sell out. I have dignity.




I suggested aluminum purely from a weight savings perspective, something that you seem to care a great deal about, since 8 pounds of fuel makes your car "lighter and faster", I would imagine every pound of non variable weight would be a much bigger deal than you're making it out to be, as then your car would ALWAYS be that much lighter. I believe the 60v6 aluminum heads have other advantages as well, but that was not the point.

as for dignity, there's a fine line between being dignified, and pompous, I'm sure you know which category you fall into, whether your right or not would be debatable. In my experience, if a person feels the need to say they have a character trait, it usually means they don't, or that the individual lacks other traits which degrade their character and are trying to make up for the lack of positive traits. I don't believe myself to be a great judge of character, but I do believe I have a fair grasp of my own character though.

who exactly have I sold out to? this vehicle is funded solely by me, every part purchased, every ounce of material, all me, no popular youtube channel, no fanfare, no sponsors(I would welcome a sponsor). I never started this with the intention of keeping any of the stock Fiero engine, or a 3.4 camaro engine they're both turds that I don't feel like polishing. is the engine I chose to use some kind of miracle machine? no, but it has a long list of improvements over a 2.8 or 3.4, and had I stuck to installing a stock LX9 engine with a stock 4 speed that I had on hand, I would have many more miles on this car, am I disappointed that didn't do that? no, I've learned more from it than I ever would have imagined.


lack of creativity? if my build is that boring, why are you here? Are you here purely to look down on my lowly turbo car? to scoff at my attempts to extract as much as I can from my ECU? to laugh at my choice of a camshaft and ridicule me for not having you spec a camshaft for me? in your past few posts in this thread, you've mentioned your car more than anything else, in manners that aren't really relevant to anything, and seemingly going out of the way to do it.

I feel like there's a fair bit of creativity that has gone into this car, so as a refresher, here's a few things I've built or developed for my car, that were not an off the shelf part or procedure. note, this list is far from all inclusive, and there's plenty of examples in this thread.

-I built my own accessory drive components, to include a belt tensioner mount that holds up to 7000 RPM without throwing belts(yes the engine has seen 7000 RPM multiple times)
-I drive my gauges off of PWM signals to remove redundant wiring, and sensors
-every single engine and transmission mount was made in my garage, none were based on stock parts for anything.
-my entire exhaust from the head flanges back, was almost entirely me, the only parts I didn't have a significant hand in making, was the mufflers/tailpipes(which I did highly modify.), and the turbine housing.
-I developed a method to draw my own flanges for the exhaust when the aftermarket failed to supply and adequate product.

I would also argue it takes more than a little creativity to cram a turbo/intercooler into a car without straight up hacking it to bits, it's quite far from a bolt in affair unless you own something that that someone makes a kit for, last I checked the vast majority of people don't care about Fieros, therefore there are no kits.

you put a massive intake on your car, straight through your decklid, your exhaust similarly goes straight through the decklid, you did not impose any restrictions on your build, which means you have less problems that require a creative solution. I have gone to great lengths to get a factory decklid on my car, and limit modifications to the body of the car to fit the modifications I have chosen to make, which requires quite a bit of creative problem solving, and in the areas which the body has been modified, I've made attempts to make the installation as smooth as possible, and minimize the number of obvious modifications to to untrained eyes. I will concede that in the very early stages of this build I cut the lower half of the trunk out to fit an intercooler water tank, eventually, I'll go back and finish trunk back out, at least the top half of it.

My car isn't the best thing since sliced bread, it's just a car that I've put a ton of effort into, and thankfully, that effort is starting to show. it's fairly reliable, and kinda quick, both things that should trend positively as I work out some of the quirks the car currently has.

------------------
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

I invited Lou Dias to trash me in my own thread, he refused. sorry. if he trashes your thread going after me. I tried.

claude dalpe SEP 04, 03:34 PM
Boys you have to take your gas equal (French expression to say to calm down)
You have 2 nice engine swaps with different ideas and I like your 2 approaches which are really different and I follow you both so please keep impressing me please
Claude
ericjon262 SEP 04, 06:09 PM

quote
Originally posted by claude dalpe:

Boys you have to take your gas equal (French expression to say to calm down)
You have 2 nice engine swaps with different ideas and I like your 2 approaches which are really different and I follow you both so please keep impressing me please
Claude



Claude, I'll be blunt, the only reason this thread stays updated is because a few individuals have asked questions, or given relevant advice. there has been more than one occasion in which I've contemplated removing myself from this forum completely, not just this thread, but there are still a handful of threads that I enjoy seeing progress on.

I am not the most brilliant person here, I make no attempt to embellish my findings, or my results, but someone who brags about a speed advantage caused by having one gallon less fuel must have a carbon monoxide leak into their cabin. For a 2800 pound car, 1 gallon of gas is about 0.29%(note the decimal) difference in the weight of the vehicle. Even if we recalculated for a 10 gallon tank, that's still less than 3%, vehicle weight.

This guy is blowing smoke, this data point isn't the only one I'm highly suspect of, but I'm not going to sit here and write a book on the matter.

Edit to add:

"but my lap times get shorter from start to end of a race"

fuel level is far from the only variable that could be at play, tire temperature, oil temps, brake temps all could make a significant difference in vehicle performance over the course of a drive, all without the human factor, the variable that is almost impossible to account for.
------------------
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

I invited Lou Dias to trash me in my own thread, he refused. sorry. if he trashes your thread going after me. I tried.

[This message has been edited by ericjon262 (edited 09-04-2022).]

Will SEP 09, 09:05 AM

quote
Originally posted by La fiera:

In my kind of racing the more fuel I burn the lighter and faster I'll be. 8lbs per pound off fuel is a big deal If I can burn lots of fuel to make the car lighter. I only have 8 average laps at the most.



Water is 8#/gal. Gasoline is ~6#/gal. We used to use a temperature-adjusted density of ~6.7-7.3 #/gal for jet fuel (pretty close to diesel fuel) when I was in flight school.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 09-09-2022).]

La fiera SEP 11, 11:30 AM

quote
Originally posted by claude dalpe:

Boys you have to take your gas equal (French expression to say to calm down)
You have 2 nice engine swaps with different ideas and I like your 2 approaches which are really different and I follow you both so please keep impressing me please
Claude



Claude you are absolutely right! Two different approaches with two different goals. After reading Eric's reply to my last post I realized he is absolutely right. This is about his project and not mine. Eric, I check on your project because I really enjoy and admire your tenacity and creativity. I can tell you that besides me, others as well have benefited from something that you have done in this thread. One thing my grandma instill in me was to acknowledge when I have made a mistake and apologize, like real men do.
Eric, please receive my sincere apologies! The last thing I want is for you to stop updating your thread.
You live in SC right? I'm going to be instructing at Carolina Motorsports Park with the Mustang club and hopefully I can have the Fiero ready for its first shakedown, I'd love for us to meet there if possible, we can have a beer and dinner after the event on Saturday, and don't worry about paying. Where I come from is customary for the one who invites to pay.
It was the same with Will, me and him bumped heads but once we met at an event I was instructing in WV, everything changed. Will is the nicest, coolest and easy going dude I've ever met with such a vast knowledge that blew my mind. It was like I've knew him from long ago!
A lot of emotions get lost in typing. Again, please Eric; accept my apologies!

Rei Moloon