Completely new fuel injection system computer? (Page 1/8)
82-T/A [At Work] DEC 21, 06:30 PM
Hey guys, I know a lot of people are upgrading to the 7730 ECM (?)... but I was wondering if there isn't a better system, like maybe an aftermarket kit like a Holley ProJection oro something like that? I don't know what the newest one is... but I know there's a lot of kits out there that you can use to basically drop onto a carbureted V8 and magically you have a self-tuning computer controlled V8 with OBD2. Most of these kits are made to be used with HEI distributors too.

Is there anything that we can adapt to the Pontiac Fiero V6 engine? I can live with installing a MAF sensor if I need to. Anyway, just curious...


Thanks!
fieroguru DEC 21, 06:54 PM
Most aftermarket ECM's don't have the reliability or fail safes that the factory ECMs have. With current tuning packages, you can dial in most combinations for good drivability, power, and economy with a factory OBD2 ecm and one of the available tuning packages.

I wouldn't shy away from the MAF either as they are super simple to tune vs. dialing in a Speed Density table. The old days where MAF's were a restriction are long gone and now the same MAF card style sensor is used with the ecotec as well as the LS7 and they cost less than $50.

Add a cam and crank sensor and you can run an OBD2 ecm on an older ODB1 application. I am in the process of doing a 86-91 SBC swap using the LS1 ecm, LS7 MAF, and LS4 coil per plug setup.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 12-21-2013).]

82-T/A [At Work] DEC 21, 06:59 PM

quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

Most aftermarket ECM's don't have the reliability or fail safes that the factory ECMs have. With current tuning packages, you can dial in most combinations for good drivability, power, and economy with a factory OBD2 ecm and one of the available tuning packages.

I wouldn't shy away from the MAF either as they are super simple to tune vs. dialing in a Speed Density table. The old days where they were MAF's were a restriction are long gone and now the same MAF card style sensor is used with the ecotec as well as the LS7 and they cost less than $50.

Add a cam and crank sensor and you can run an OBD2 ecm on an older ODB1 application. I am in the process of doing a 86-91 SBC swap using the LS1 ecm, LS7 MAF, and LS4 coil per plug setup.





Thanks FieroGuru... I was trying to search for stuff, and mostly comming up empty-handed, but I ran across this:

FAST 302000 - FAST EZ-EFI Multiport Retrofit Kit

http://www.jegs.com/i/FAST/...entProductId=1321863




...and needless to say, I'm starting to get pretty excited.

It says it's compatible with the TPI engine (as one of the motors it lists). The TPI motor is basically more or less like a V8 version of our V6 motor (aside from the obvious differences, it's basically the same technology, MPFI w/ distributor w/MAP system.

It's important to me because I really want the driveability of a newer system, and something I can tune easily myself, AND... something that I can swap in there that will look stock.

I'm going to do a bit more research on this and see if it'll work.

The whole kit is under $900 bucks too!
82-T/A [At Work] DEC 21, 07:20 PM
I'm doing a bit more research on it...

The wiring harness that it comes with is compatible with ALL of the existing Fiero sensors including
- MAP sensor
- TPS
- IAT sensor
- CTS
- IAC Valve
- GM style injectors

Only thing I'm not sure is, what are "high impedence" injectors? I have a set of aftermarket 17# injectors from Accel, are those "high impedence" injectors?

It's also got a TACH adaptor, and works with a new wide-band / heated O2 sensor.

It also says that if it fails, it'll go into LIMP mode...

Damn, I just checked... even the distributor wiring connections are all the same too.

The ONLY thing I'd need to do at this point is handle the pin-out to the dash...

Man... I'm telling you, if this is as plug-and-play as it says... I'm going to be a very happy man. The car's already 25+ years old, and I want to be able to enjoy the car, the ECM is old technology but if I can keep it stock looking and actually have it run well... then damn...
82-T/A [At Work] DEC 21, 07:51 PM
Holy crap, I can't believe it...

I think this thing is an actual modern PLUG & PLAY engine management system for the Pontiac Fiero. EVERYTHING hooks up, the only thing I need to confirm is that you can configure it to manage 6 cyls, instead of 8. Based on videos I can see of nearly identical kits they sell, you can set the number of pistons. They probably don't mention it because it's either totally assumed, or because they figure no one with a GM v6 is that interested.

I'm so excited right now... seriously, it's almost like the feeling you get when you're about ready to "seal the deal" for the first time with a new girl you've been dating.


Why has no one else on here done this yet??? It's less than $1,000 bucks and then there's no more of this assinine bull-s**t of trying to figure out idle problems or sensor issues.

Damn.

As soon as I get confirmation back from FAST's tech support that it does support 6 pistons, I'm going to order it quickly...
trotterlg DEC 21, 07:58 PM
Nice to see people get excited about Fiero things. Just remember, at the end of the day with your bank account lighter by $1,000.00 you will have the same horsepower as when you started. Larry
82-T/A [At Work] DEC 21, 08:09 PM

quote
Originally posted by trotterlg:

Nice to see people get excited about Fiero things. Just remember, at the end of the day with your bank account lighter by $1,000.00 you will have the same horsepower as when you started. Larry




No, I definitely won't... I'll have a ton more.

I've got a V6/60 that I've dropped 3.1 crank and rods into with .040 hypertectic pistons. I've also got a Crane H272 cam with 1.52:1 roller rockers, 17# Accel fuel injectors, everything port and polished, a decent exhaust, and a bored throttle body (to 57mm) with matched intake plenum. It also has a few other odds and ends like underdrive pulleys and an Accel coil... I've also done a manual 5-Speed Getrag swap.

For one, it doesn't run right now at all... and before the 5-Speed swap, it didn't run all that great when it was still an automatic. It would lay rubber up until 3,000 rpms and then it would just fall flat. That was with a really crappy cam.

Needless to say though, this computer system will give me:

1 - Seamless performance, no idle issues, no hunting idle, no hesitation anywhere.
2 - Faster ECM performance
3 - Improved fuel economy
4 - Improved emissions
5 - Brand new engine wiring harness
6 - Improved reliability
7 - Improved starts


I can't emphesize it enough, this will make my car actually run like it should... and it's something I can just hop into and not have to really worry about it. It really simplifies the ECM. I think it also has provisions for a knock sensor too if I want to use it.

I can also get rid of the cold start injector.
fieroguru DEC 21, 08:34 PM
It doesn't control timing...


quote
The EZ-EFI also doesn't control ignition timing,




quote
Beyond the EZ-EFI, there is the XFI system. This step is usually chosen if the user wants to have complete control over his tuning, or he wants timing control.



Here is an article where they installed the same system on a ford and mentioned the lack of timing control.
http://www.musclemustangfas...d_setup/viewall.html

Once you find an aftermarket controller that does both fuel and spark, then start comparing the resolution in the tables. The larger the resolution, the closer you can dial in the tune, which helps with drivability. I have used older Holley Projection and Edelbrock Pro-Flo setups and your stock fiero ECM has about 10-20 times the resolution in fueling and spark...
82-T/A [At Work] DEC 21, 08:45 PM

quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

It doesn't control timing...


Here is an article where they installed the same system on a ford and mentioned the lack of timing control.
http://www.musclemustangfas...d_setup/viewall.html

Once you find an aftermarket controller that does both fuel and spark, then start comparing the resolution in the tables. The larger the resolution, the closer you can dial in the tune, which helps with drivability. I have used older Holley Projection and Edelbrock Pro-Flo setups and your stock fiero ECM has about 10-20 times the resolution in fueling and spark...




Thanks for that link, there are some good pictures in there. I know those old fuel injection kits like the Holley ProJection are really, really slow. This kit is apparently only a few years old (debuted in 2009) so it's a bit faster than some of those kits that were originally designed in the mid 90s.


But just to be clear,will it work with the factory distributor. Basically, I want to keep my car looking as stock as possible, so I really do want to keep my distributor...


EDIT: Or, am I confused? When you say it doesn't control timing, are you saying that I cannot use my factory distributor / ignition control module?


EDIT: Ok, there's a newer version of this kit called "EZ-EFI 2.0® Self Tuning Engine Control System - Multi-Port Retro-Fit Type" It's basically the same thing but it DOES support timing control.


I'm really starting to get confused though, do you (or anyone else) know what kind of distributor we have on our Fieros? I know absolutely it's not a mechanical/points... but it does have an ignition control module.

The instructions for the one that does support timing references a few different kinds, it says:


"Ignition system – In order for your EZ-EFI® to control ignition timing (optional) on a traditional, single coil, distributor-equipped engine, it must have a crank reference signal at TDC from either a crank trigger or a “locked out” distributor with an integrated pickup. The EZ-EFI® system and wiring harness are set up to be plug-and-play with our FAST™ Crank Trigger kits or Dual Sync Distributors. A capacitive discharge (CD)-style ignition box is also required for the EZ-EFI® to control timing. The CD ignition box will receive the ECU’s ignition output signal and fire the coil."

Does the Fiero distributor match anything in that description? Thanks for your help...

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 12-21-2013).]

trotterlg DEC 21, 09:34 PM
You will be disappointed with your results. Larry